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  • #602784
    hello99
    Participant

    There was an article regarding Papouchado Pesach cookies on the main site earlier.

    There are actually a number of problems with them even for Sefardim besides Stam Yeinam.

    They contain salt, which is Halachically equivalent to water. Consequently, they essentially contain water and Mei Peiros, which is certainly Assur.

    Furthermore, they contain baking powder/soda which makes them rise. While nfermentationion which is the simple translation of Chametz, a number of Poskim suspect that Mei Peiros which is made to rise usageage of additioningredientsnts may be Chometz.

    #866264
    Milhouse
    Participant

    What are you talking about? Salt is like water?! Since when? And which poskim exactly hold that baking powder or soda can make a difference? Please list them.

    #866265
    mdd
    Member

    It said the process takes 27 minutes, and it’s too long. If mei peros do not cause chometz, what’s the problem?

    Stam yenam? They use yain asher eino mevushal there??!?

    #866266
    Chacham
    Participant

    water mixed with mmei peiros is machhmitz right away

    #866267
    mdd
    Member

    Then what’s the deal with the 27 min.? Even a little bit is a problem.

    #866268
    hello99
    Participant

    milhouse: “What are you talking about? Salt is like water?! Since when?”

    See Mishna Berura 462:24 and Biur Halacha 455:5 s.v. Nohagim

    #866269
    hello99
    Participant

    mdd: “Stam yenam? They use yain asher eino mevushal there??!?”

    Almost all wine and grape juice here in EY is not Mevushal, especially considering that many Poskim here do not consider pasturization “Bishul”.

    #866270
    mdd
    Member

    His brother Rav Avraham said that everything there is kosher. And what about the 27 min., if it does not cause chimutz?

    I just looked in the M.B. and the Biur Halocha, and it is not poshut at all that it is a problem, and the Chofets Chaim matirs in many cases. Look there! Or in E. Yisroel, it is always lehachmir?!?

    #866271
    hello99
    Participant

    salt in EY is all sea salt

    #866272
    Milhouse
    Participant

    hello99, see the very next siman, 463, where it’s clear that even sea salt is OK if it’s only the small amount that one would put in cookies.

    Bichlal, the distinction between sea salt and rock salt doesn’t make sense; it’s exactly the same substance. All salt is originally sea salt, it’s just that some of it dried up hundreds or thousands of years ago when the sea receded and the area became land. It’s all NaCl, and has exactly the same effect. And this distinction is not something we received from Chazal; it seems (from the little I’ve seen) to be the Darkei Moshe’s own chidush, so we are not obliged to accept it if it’s neged hachush.

    #866273
    hello99
    Participant

    milhouse: see the Biur Halacha that the Ritva argues and he is Machmir.

    Frankly, I don’t know where you get the gall from to dispute a Darkei Moshe/Rema single-handedly.

    #866274
    Milhouse
    Participant

    So who says the halocho is like the Ritvo?

    And we are not obligated to accept a chidush of achronim when it is neged hachush.

    #866275
    mdd
    Member

    And Beis Yosef holds it is only “nochon”.

    #866276
    hello99
    Participant

    milhouse: “So who says the halocho is like the Ritvo?”

    The Biur Halacha.

    “And we are not obligated to accept a chidush of achronim when it is neged hachush.”

    Says who? Especially when the “Acahron” is the Rema and his Chiluk is accepted by all those after him, both here and in 318 regarding Melach k’Bisra d’Tura

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