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You Really need a mentor to guide you on these things. The questions you are asking can’t be properly answered by people that don’t know you.
Either way, without knowing you, My opinion is, if you don’t feel comfortable with him now-when you haven’t even committed to each other- Just think about down the line. Do you think that he will be a good and respectful husband. If you’re not sure, the he isnt for you. You need to make sure that you will be happy in life. Don’t settle just because you want to be married already
rebshidduch i think you should stop hanging out with him
STAY AWAY. tell him your not interested. tell him he offends you. tell him when you see a change you will reconsider (even if you wont). if u need to- tell him your seeing someone else (i believe it is permitted to lie i can get you sources in halachah…)
After reading all this it seems that you don’t have much experience being around boys or relationships in general and thats not a good or bad thing. First you should realize that he likes you. You can be direct and let him know the truth. Tell him that you do not think what he is doing is appropriate and that you are not interested in going out with him. Saying you want to move to Lakewood is just hinting and some guys (like me) just don’t get those types of hints. Learn to say no when he asks you to do things that make you uncomfortable (like playing non Jewish music). At the end of the day its your decision and don’t stress yourself out about things like this.
The whole dating process is not easy and even when you find someone and you think they might be the one, it might not work out for various reasons. Sit back and understand that G-d has a plan and it will work out.
I’m a guy and I’m going through the process myself, so I understand there can be trying times. I’m coming from a more OOT MO YU type background so my experiences are completely different.
One thing that you wrote disturbs me. You mentioned that it was a good thing you never had a boyfriend (fine). But the reason you gave was because you don’t trust boys, yet you want to be set up with one (red flags). You do realize that if you don’t trust boys, then you are not ready to date one. If you want to have a good marriage then your relationship will have to be built on trust. If there is no trust, then what happens when you have kids? Will you trust your husband to make good decisions on how to raise them? Maybe I’m reading into that too much, but I recently was going out with a wonderful girl who had gone through some very hard situations and had never been in a real relationship before. Right as we were about to be much more serious, she realized that she was not ready to open up so we ended it.
Sorry for the long post.
Tl:dr Be direct with him. Sit back and don’t stress about the dating process, it will all work out. Don’t date until you are truly ready.
“The question was how to make him stop saying inappropriate things to me? “
Oh, I am so confused, I thought this was the question:
“Would it be okay for reb shidduch to date someone like this even if he does not want to learn full time and he went OTD and came back on and is trying to be as frum as he can for reb shidduch?”
Seems you have answered the first question.
As to the second question, you said that you play music together (“he somehow convinces me to put not Jewish music on”) and have told him about your ideals for marriage (“I talk about moving to lakewood and marrying a full time learner all the time in front of him. “). Why are are you talking/spending time with a guy at all? Maybe if you stopped sending him mixed messages, he will get the hint that you are not his type.
Rebshidduch: The following was dangerous advice and do not listen to it…
A “tell him when you see a change you will reconsider (even if you wont).”
Ha. Yea right. So he can fake being a learner for her? She isn’t interested and that needs to be 100% clear.
B “if u need to- tell him your seeing someone else (i believe it is permitted to lie i can get you sources in halachah…)”
Why so he convince her to cheat on her bf/fiance/husband?
Unless frum guys have mastered their YH completely, a bochur can spin a girl’s “I’m seeing someone else” to hear “I like you but I am burdened by my current SO and if only I wasn’t with him because I am so into you…”
That’s a no thank you. She doesn’t need a guy around thinking that she’s smitten when she isn’t.
RebShidduch – GET AWAY FROM THIS GUY AS FAR AS YOU CAN IMMEDIATELY!
From some of your recent posts, he sounds VERY DANGEROUS!!! Where are the two of you that he has the opportunity to “convince you to put on not-Jewish music”? If he is able to convince you of things so easily, who knows what he will convince you of next?
And if he is the guy you were considering giving rides to, STOP IMMEDIATELY! And don’t give rides to any more boys, and stop talking to boys! It is very bad for you. It might not be for some people, but it is for you.
You should only date through shadchanim from now on. It would be a very bad idea for you to “just meet someone”
rebshidduch:
You wrote that you recently just became more frum, and want someone learning full time. But this guy apparently “convinced” you to put on non-Jewish music, and you looked at his tattoo. That means you already did spend some time with him.
Quite frankly, I don’t think you’re ready to get married, and you probably shouldn’t be dating. It sounds like you’re still figuring out where you are and want to be in life. You need to have that completely figured out before marriage.
Oh, and don’t say someone “isn’t good enough for you.” He may be good enough, but he’s just not what you’re looking for. It’s better to say “he’s not right for you.”
Rebshidduch, if your friendship with this girl resulted in your doing things that you shouldn’t have, then you probably should drop the friendship. Not because she is not a good person, but because the friendship is not good for you. Just like this guy might be a very good person, but it’s not a good relationship for you.
I would advise you to reread DaMoshe’s post and take it seriously – all of it. What you need right now is not a shidduch. In fact the fact that you are so desperate for one is a bad sign. I have found in my experience that when a girl is desperate to get married (or is too into boys), it means that she has issues that she needs to deal with before she should be considering marriage. I have also found that those girls usually end up divorced – sometimes more than once.
But if your saying that I should wait another year or two until the guy I really want is ready…
I think she’s saying you should wait until YOU’RE ready
Meno – +1. It’s more than that though, rebshidduch. I don’t think you should just be waiting until you’re ready. I think that there are things you need to do in order to become ready.
I’ve told you before – I wasn’t sure if you wanted to me to be direct and tell you again. But if you want me to, I will.
Anyone else getting the feeling of deja vu?
1) Get a MENTOR &/or REBBETZIN to guide you.
2) FIND ONE. Ask you LOR. Call. Show up. Talk. Think. Plan with this person that you trust and who is a good guide for your life.
3) FOCUS on YOURSELF first.
4) DO #1.
WTP – I made an earlier comment about that that was deleted.
My last post was a summary of what (LU + CR) have been saying
Citation (LU et al)
LB – +1,000. That was well-put and a great summary of what I had been trying to say for most of the thread.
In my last post though, I was actually trying to say something else (in addition to the above). But I’m not sure if RebShidduch wants me to say it straight-out or not.
“I am not getting into it I meant I do not trust modern boys for personal reasons but I do trust yeshivish boys.”
I completely understand that. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. I wish you luck.
being untruthful to keep the peace is a big sugya (a lot of gemora but your a girl so…) the main sources are bereishis 18; 12-13 and rashi on 13 also bereishis 50; 16 and rashi. The basic gist is there’s a machlokes between rashi and ari hazakein if you’re allowed to lie outright (a”h) or only allowed to change / mislead (rashi) i heard from a gadol that we paskin like the ari. Either way there should be no problem telling him your “exploring your options” or even “seeing other people” if that would get him to stop being inappropriate in a peaceful manner…
The following was dangerous advice and do not listen to it…
A “tell him when you see a change you will reconsider (even if you wont).”
Ha. Yea right. So he can fake being a learner for her? She isn’t interested and that needs to be 100% clear.
LB: this is a stall tactic + she can get schar if he actually learns so even if this might not be the best way to get rid of him for good she might actually be mekariv him…(there is a chance however small it may be)(mitoch shelo lishmah ba lishma)
“LB: this is a stall tactic + she can get schar if he actually learns so even if this might not be the best way to get rid of him for good she might actually be mekariv him…(there is a chance however small it may be)(mitoch shelo lishmah ba lishma)”
No offense, but this is TERRIBLE advice! You are pretty much advising her to play with fire. Rebshidduch ignore this advise. Don’t worry about trying to mekariv him- mekariv yourself first. This plan is horrible and extremely risky. Just stay away from him.
“Are you planning on learning full time?”
No. I went to college, recently graduated and have a job. Right now I don’t have any desire to learn full time.
BMY – when someone gives advice to another person, he has to think very carefully about who the person is and whether or not this is good or bad advice for the person in question.
Obviously, that is one of the dangers inherent in giving advice online, and therefore one should always try to err on the side of caution.
The advice that you are giving Rebshidduch is advice that can theoretically either be okay advice or dangerous advice depending on the person in question.
If Reb shidduch were the type of person who has a very strong personality and hashkafa and is totally not attracted to this guy and there is no possibility that she would ever be influenced by him, then perhaps your advice would be okay advice.
However, it is clear from her posts that this is not the case at all. She has already been influenced by him (she turned on goyish music because of him) and she has a lot of contact with him (she is giving him rides). For her, this advice is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!
“Chayecha kodmim”. She has to think about herself first. You are never supposed to do kiruv at your own expense.
You all missed the point she wants to get rid of him and after giving other ideas i said to at least STALL and tell him to come back AFTER he becomes a rabbi…(we all think he wont be able to do it so therefore there would be nothing to talk about) then on the off chance that he actually becomes a better person thats not a bad thing thats all i was saying and it wasnt my first option.
BMYer -I apologize if I misunderstood and misjudged you.
The main thing is that she must make it clear that she is having nothing to do with him either way. Even if she wants to take your advice, she has to tell him that even if he becomes Frumer, she still will have nothing to do with him until he has spent two years in a Yeshiva, and if he really “frums out” he can contact her via a shadchan (and only via a shadchan) at that point.
I’m not even sure that’s the best idea, but if she takes your advice, that’s the only way she should even consider it.
Personally, I still think it’s a bad idea though.
In terms of the fact that nothing else has been working, that’s only because she hasn’t tried hard enough yet, because she hasn’t yet convinced herself to get rid of him. And she is still giving him rides, which she must stop, ASAP!!
I’m not even sure that’s the best idea,
LU: THAT was my point it’s not the best idea (if you look earlier I gave about 5 other ideas) but as a last resort…
5 years in yeshiva and he’s not religious??!? Is that not a RED flag??
I didn’t say that but there’s clearly something very wrong and I wouldn’t hold my breath…
rebshidduch: Why are you so hung up on this guy? Do you really like him that much and want to date him?
rebitzen: Could you just say outright that you’re going to stop giving him rides / hanging out (or whatever…) and we could shelf this whole discussion? We all just seem to agree (including you) that he’s bad news and you should STAY AWAY from him…
Repeat after me:
I will STAY AWAY from person x.
I will not give person x rides.
I will not look at his tattoo or anything else he shows me(because I am staying away).
I will daven that he should do teshuva shleima while staying away from me.
I will daven that he should not get hurt by my actions.
I will daven that hashem should send me my true bashert at the right time (and that the right time should be soon).
Then do everything you just said…
What is too hard?
What other guys?
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