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Not trying to start another endless unproductive debate on the election fraud, I just genuinely would like to understand why, if not for fraud, are democrats trying so hard in Arizona to stop the audit? Is there an actual reason?
Because they stole the election
The “forensic audit” is a joke but allows some Arizona Senate wingnuts to establish their Trumpkopf bona fides in a political world where Republican Primaries are essentially contests over who is the Trumpiest Trumpkopf.
If it’s a joke what’s there to hide
Because it lends legitimacy to the idea that the election has been stolen. The people calling for the audit are exactly the type of people who we need out of Washington: arrogant fools who will adamantly deny reality even if it’s shining in their faces. By giving in to them and performing an audit, it will allow them to waste valuable time and resources, not to mention they’ll probably pick up a few facts out of context and use it to convince fools of their legitimacy.
“If you have nothing to hide, why oppose?” can almost be the motto of totalitarian regimes everywhere. It can be used to justify almost anything. And it’s a terrible idea to base a pointless audit on.
TVAP,
There is another question which will clue you in. Why is the GOP-led Maricopa County Board of Supervisors also refusing to assist the effort?
Answer: They say that multiple past reviews have already demonstrated the election was run properly.
There is an internal GOP fight going on between those who want to find favor in Trump’s eyes because he still holds a stranglehold on the party and those who realize that the man destroyed his legacy and the GOP by losing the house, senate and WH in 4 years and lying about winning the election.
GH -“The “forensic audit” is a joke but allows some Arizona Senate wingnuts to establish their Trumpkopf bona fides”
If you don’t believe in Forensics, then you must believe in the fact Chauvin’s trial was Injust!
Because who said that the Cop killled him?
A Forensic Expert from NY.
So either you’re a Hypocrite or you Believe in Forensics, but are too scared that Biden didn’t win the election in Arizona?!?@torahvaluesoverparty I claim that Donald Trump is guilty of inciting a riot and should be held responsible for the deaths of five people, the injuries of more than 100, and millions in property damage. Why not try him in court? If by the end of the case, no guilt is found, then he’s innocent!
Yesr -” I claim that Donald Trump is guilty of inciting a riot and should be held responsible for the deaths of five people, the injuries of more than 100, and millions in property damage. Why not try him in court? If by the end of the case, no guilt is found, then he’s innocent!”
Trust me – they would – if they could!
I posted many times the Actual Law of Inciting to Riot!
What Trump did or said, didn’t even come close.
Why don’t you get your knowledge from the actual Law itself, instead of from the Fake Media?!?Joe Biden isn’t the acting president. The whole election was a fraud.
Isn’t this thread about a ballot counting in Arizona? Why is there a segway to the riots
@torahvaluesoverparty I see no logical reason why we have to devote time, energy, and resources to every claim by every guy standing on a street corner and shouting. For the Shouting Man, it’s a win-win situation. Either they find evidence to back up his claim, or they waste time looking for evidence and make it look like his claim is actually legitimate.
@mbachur @coffee-addict Because it’s hypocritical to say that the impeachment investigations of Trump are illegitimate due to lack of evidence, but investigations into voting fraud is valid.The PillowAmoretz has just come out with Trumpkopf II, a sequel to his Trumpkopf I documentary running on OAN proving beyond doubt that secret satellite lasers controlled by George Soros from an underground bunker in Chelm manipulated the voting machines in the key swing states. There are a whole bunch of right wing nutcases making a fortune pushing these conspiracy theories and fundraising for Republican primary challenges.
TVAP,
First, the democrats didn’t try so hard. When they were required to post a million dollars bond they stopped.
Second, the GOP party in Maricopa County is also trying hard to prevent a recount.
Third, as Yserbius explained, just because some idiot claims something about an election doesn’t mean that they get to do a recount – that was already done to the satisfaction of the GOP Led Maricopa County election board.
Fourth, the people doing the recount are not unbiased. If you check the backgrounds of the owners of the companies that were hired, they are suspiciously very open to the idea that there was fraud.
Fifth, they will be calling voters to ask who they voted for to correlate their votes with their ballots. That is an invasion of privacy and will never get the truth.
Sixth, the results are meaningless and worthless because it’s being run in a partisan manner by the republican led senate in AZ.So after these seven reasons, why do it and pay for it? Unless you are sure that you are going to get the desired result – there was fraud and Trump really won Maricopa County.
Lakewut -“Because they stole the election”
Did you watch Mike Lindel’s documentary?
He calls it – “Irrefutable Proof”.
I watched part of it.
The DemonCrats don’t want any Audit, because they know that they stole the election, but they don’t want their Sheep, like the ones who post here, to know the Truth!@torahvaluesoverparty Never, in the history of the human race, has an investigation into a matter where charged emotions have their minds already made up, changed the minds of anyone. An audit will not “reassure most of those tens of millions”.
Hundreds of millions of Americans believe that a man who lived 2000 years ago was Moshiach and a god. Just because a lot of people believe in something doesn’t make it true.
@torahvaluesoverparty Sorry, but I don’t believe you. You don’t have to be a fanatic or radical to have your mind made up. It’s pretty standard human nature and Newton’s Law, you need a lot of force to change the inertia of someone’s mind once it reaches a place it’s comfortable with.
There have already been countless debunks on the claims of voter fraud and zero proof that there was ever any fraud significant enough to change the election. Are you trying to tell me that all of that has nearly changed your mind and this one last thing will finally push you over the edge to admitting that there was no fraud?
TVAP,
The party radicals ARE running the Maricopa County Audit. Absolutely nothing to be gained in terms of truth.
A lot to be gained in propaganda for Trump and his supporters.TVOP -“I’m not saying this amounts to fraud”
Well that’s because you’re in the middle.
Us Conservatives know that their was Tons of Fraud.
Not just changing election laws at the last minute, but Fake Results from the computers!
If you’re are interested in the Truth, watch Mike Lindel’s documentary.
He calls it – “Irrefutable Proof”.It’s not a Bunch of Conspiracy theorists – spouting a bunch of nonsense.
But it’s real experts explaining how the Election was Stolen!
But no one wants the Truth.
All the Libs, even the Frum ones, want to live in Their Little Dream World!I couldn’t even watch the Whole thing, because it was So Appalling!
After all the evidence, the US is worse than China or Russia.Because if they don’t fight this, they wont be able to rig the election.
@torahvaluesoverparty I’ll focus on two debunked claims.
In Georgia, the state was leaning slightly in Trumps favor. Then a few counties were counted and they all leaned heavily Biden. Guiliani and Trumps legal team claimed that there was a one in a quadrillion chance of that happening. Since the state was showing mostly Trump votes, for it to suddenly switch and start turning Blue must be because of fraud. The real story is that the Atlanta district and the mail-in ballots were counted last. Since the Republicans had spent the last year telling people to vote in person (while the Democrats were saying the opposite), the main-ins were heavily favoring Biden. And Atlanta has been extremely blue for decades.
A second claim was that 134,000 votes suddenly appeared for Biden late one night in Michigan. That actually did happen, but it was a clerical error and corrected within a few hours. Biden still won the district even once those votes were corrected.
These were two of the bigger, more evidence based, claims that Trump was touting last year. I would hope that you will read the information and evidence yourself and if you’re not at convinced, to at least be a little more skeptical of the 2020 fraud hysteria.
“but it was a clerical error”
134,000 votes is a clerical error?
@coffee-addict @torahvaluesoverparty The clerical error was only in what was reported, the actual vote count was never affected. So even all the clerical errors in the world wouldn’t have changed the outcome.
I can see I’m not convincing anyone. Then let’s pick apart some other issues. I’m going to ignore the Republican election officials who were adamant that there was no fraud, and also the fact that all proven cases of fraud only totaled to a few dozen votes scattered across multiple states, and instead focus on specific claims
In Georgia there was a video showing a room full of ballot counters that empties out at the end of the day, then two people pull out suitcases from under a table, open them up, and add the contents to the ballot stacks. OAN purported that the video was showing secret ballot stuffing. In reality, according to people familiar with procedures, and the people who left the room in the video, the workers were opening ballots, not counting them, and the suitcases were full of already opened ballots that were added to the piles of open ballots waiting to be counted by another group.
A Trump attorney claimed that in Nevada, 42,000 people voted twice. In court, the evidence to back up that claim was slim to none and relied on a compilation of incomplete records obtained from the DMV matching up with names of people who voted.
99.9% of the other claims had little to no evidence to back themselves up. I specifically picked claims that on the surface were solid enough to even bring to court and/or have the President specifically address them. As you can see, even a cursory examination reveals the claims to be bogus.
I can bring up claim debunkings from here until Moshiach comes, but you can keep saying “But what about the other claims!”. If debunks on four of the strongest claims weren’t enough to make you skeptical, then what will?
Yesr -“In Georgia there was a video showing a room full of ballot counters that empties out at the end of the day, then two people pull out suitcases from under a table, open them up, and add the contents to the ballot stacks”
Stop trying to Rehash the Old DemonCrat Lies!
Here is the real Fraud in Georgia:
“From the NY Times:
TRUMP’S CLAIM: That machines flipped votes, counting Trump ballots as Biden ones.
STERLING’S EXPLANATION: If this had happened, Mr. Sterling said, the hand recount would have shown it, and it did not show anything of the sort.
Discussing allegations of hacking, he added that ballot machines and scanners aren’t connected to the internet. “Neither one has modems,” Mr. Sterling said. “It’s very hard to hack things without modems.”This guy’s is a Joke!
First of all, Lindel claims – Dominion computers were hacked by China.
Even if you say Lindel is a Liar, Dominion itself admits they tally results in Foreign countries.
So let’s say they aren’t connected to the Net, but they just connect someway. Even if it’s a wire – it’s subject to Hacking!“A second claim was that 134,000 votes suddenly appeared for Biden late one night in Michigan. That actually did happen, but it was a clerical error and corrected within a few hours. Biden still won the district even once those votes were corrected.
From News max:
“A forensic audit of the presidential vote tally by Dominion Voting Systems software used in Antrim County, Michigan, claims to have shown a more than 68% error rate, with auditors claiming the system intentionally creates the errors so the machine can have them “adjudicated” – allowing individuals to change the result.”
“The audit was conducted by Allied Security Operations Group, a group backed by the Trump campaign, and does not confirm that Dominion engaged in any wrongdoing or acted improperly. The Trump auditors claim the error rate is unusual considering the Federal Election Commission allows a maximum error rate of just 0.0008 percent for computerized voting systems.
Allied Security claimed “The system intentionally generates an enormously high number of ballot errors. The electronic ballots are then transferred for adjudication. The intentional errors lead to bulk adjudication of ballots with no oversight, no transparency, and no audit trail.”In Plain English – they are subject to Lots of Fraud.
So Why make a system that has a 68% error rate, if they aren’t interested in changing Votes?!?Next Fraud:
“A Detroit city worker who was assigned to the election has sworn in an affidavit that she and others were ordered to change mailing dates on ballots and observed supervisors “coaching” voters to cast ballots for Democrat Joe Biden.
Jessy Jacob, a longtime city worker, signed the affidavit in a lawsuit by the Great Lakes Justice Center – which says it focuses on freedom of speech, religious liberty, and sanctity of life, among other issues – on behalf of two Michigan voters.
“Why aren’t you worried about these irregularities?” GOP chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, a Michigander, scolded defiant reporters at a Trump campaign briefing Monday. “If you have an election worker told to backdate ballots, that’s a problem.
“What we are seeing is deeply alarming,” she added in an impassioned rejection of media’s skepticism of Trump campaign fraud claims.
When pressed again for evidence of illegal voter fraud, McDaniel reminded the media of the claims filed in affidavits and lawsuits.
“I think I just went thought that with you: With someone backdating ballots? That’s called illegal,” she said, adding delivering evidence to the media reluctant to do its own investigations will take time.
“That’s going to be an investigation process, but somebody was told you need to backdate ballots to make them legal, ballots that were illegal under the law.”This case was True, but G goons made him backtrack under Threat!
This is why I wrote in the other topic – the US is worse than China or Russia!what’s a g goon?
Participant -“what’s a g goon?”
A Government Goon.
tvp – there are always so many fake claims… one gets debunked a new one pops up, this is why you can’t argue with conspiracy theorists. There is simply no end to what they come up with to explain anything they want.
Am I the only one to think that we have reached the end of free and fair elections? Elections from now on, will depend upon the qualify perception of how it was run. Nobody had a clue of the inner workings of the election process prior to 2020. Yet, many people make strong claims about the possibility/impossibility of fraud being perpetuated. Even if the major races this year do not claim fraud, the candidates will have to be ready to go to court to battle frivolous clams. This will affect the money on hand to run the actual campaigns. Even if both parties take the high road and agree not to convert the election no matter what – like they do in Africa – a fringe candidate can some along and upend everything with claims of fraud and vast conspiracy. Although the elections will have winners – maybe even unanimous winners, the election itself will not be free and fair. It will be costly too prepare for potential claims of fraud. And will be unfairly tilted to the candidates that embrace election turmoil.
NoMesorah -“Am I the only one to think that we have reached the end of free and fair elections?”
For this you can only blame the DemonCrats!
I’m not even discussing whether there was Fraud in the 2020 election.
But in 2016 the DemonCrats were very upset that Trump Won, even though Hillary probably got more actual votes.
So they did whatever they could – No requiring to vote in person & no checking residency in real time, etc.
All these requirements were for the accuracy of the Voters.
When you got rid of this in some States, the chance of Fraud occuring is Quadrupled!Dear Health,
I think your point is somewhat valid. The roots of 2020 probably go back to 2000 and 2004. Are we in agreement that future elections will be ran under assumptions of fraud litigation?
@Health You didn’t address a single one of the debunkings I posted. And every one of your claims wasn’t “There was fraud and here’s proof” but “If you tilt your head and squint your eyes at the numbers, you can see where fraud may have occurred”.
@torahvaluesoverparty I was initially on the fence over the election fraud claims. But after looking in to who is making the claims, what they are claiming, and what the responses were, I concluded that there’s no evidence of fraud. I don’t see the purpose of examining every individual claim for fraud, especially if the evidence for some of the biggest claims is faulty or non-existent.I still don’t get why Maricopa County in particular has you hung up. One county isn’t nearly enough to change the national votes to Red. You say that all claims from here on will have less credibility, if you read the details about the original claims, there wasn’t much credibility to begin with!
I think it’s all a distraction. Those few remaining Trump supporters know that no one wants to spend the time and energy auditing the Maricopa votes when there’s no evidence of wrongdoing. So they use that to their advantage. “Oh you don’t want an audit, huh? Must be because you have something to hide!”
Yesr -“Health You didn’t address a single one of the debunkings I posted. And every one of your claims wasn’t “There was fraud and here’s proof” but “If you tilt your head and squint your eyes at the numbers, you can see where fraud may have occurred”.
LOL!
Obviously, you only read what suits you!
This is called Fraud; From above:
“A Detroit city worker who was assigned to the election has sworn in an affidavit that she and others were ordered to change mailing dates on ballots and observed supervisors “coaching” voters to cast ballots for Democrat Joe Biden.”
Now you know why Trump said to go peacefully to the Congress and protest.
The Real insurrection was from the DemonCrats on Nov.3!I’m not Rehashing the Fraud that occurred back then.
But if Congress & the Justice Dept. wants to prosecute anyone from Jan. 6, they should start with all the Fraud on Nov.3, 2020!@Health Let’s not keep moving the goalposts and talking about each new claim of fraud each time one gets debunked. If you want to discuss my comment, then let’s stick to one claim at a time. How about the first one I mentioned, where Guiliani’s team claimed that for the Georgia votes to swing towards Biden is a one in a septillion chance, while in reality it was just a question of Blue districts and mail-in ballots getting counted last.
@torahvaluesoverparty But why? There’s no evidence to support the idea that a full audit will turn up anything substantial. Georgia had two hand recounts, multiple Republican governors and judges contested claims of fraud, etc. It’s just a smokescreen, a waste of time, and a way to give some ammunition to Trump’s dwindling support base (even if nothing is found).Yesr -“Let’s not keep moving the goalposts and talking about each new claim of fraud each time one gets debunked.”
You don’t control what I post.
Get Off Your High – Horse!And btw, I was commenting on this – This is your Comment:
“And every one of your claims wasn’t “There was fraud and here’s proof”“This is called Fraud; From above:
“A Detroit city worker who was assigned to the election has sworn in an affidavit that she and others were ordered to change mailing dates on ballots and observed supervisors “coaching” voters to cast ballots for Democrat Joe Biden.”“If you want to discuss my comment, then let’s stick to one claim at a time. How about the first one I mentioned, where Guiliani’s team claimed that for the Georgia votes to swing towards Biden is a one in a septillion chance, while in reality it was just a question of Blue districts and mail-in ballots getting counted last.”
So you insist I just comment on your Post about Georgia!
Lucky for you – I found Fraud there too!“In Georgia there was a video showing a room full of ballot counters that empties out at the end of the day, then two people pull out suitcases from under a table, open them up, and add the contents to the ballot stacks. OAN purported that the video was showing secret ballot stuffing. In reality, according to people familiar with procedures, and the people who left the room in the video, the workers were opening ballots, not counting them, and the suitcases were full of already opened ballots that were added to the piles of open ballots waiting to be counted by another group.”
That wasn’t the Fraud!
Stop believing the Fake News!
Here’s the Real Fraud in that case:
“Thursday, a Georgia Senate Judiciary subcommittee heard new jaw-dropping allegations of alleged election fraud in the state from several people including President Donald Trump’s attorney, Rudy Giuliani.
The supposed video tape evidence alleges proof of ballots being counted without oversight. A subcommittee comprised of both Republicans and Democrats held a hearing at the State Capitol for perhaps the biggest bombshell presented to lawmakers from inside State Farm Arena.
For the first time, the president’s legal team, led by Giuliani, presented surveillance video from the state’s largest voting center. The video allegedly shows people taking out at least four boxes of ballots from underneath a table, and then counting them after hours with no election supervisors present”The Ballots have to have Supervision!
Shame on the DemonCrats for Stealing the 2020 Federal Election!
For their desire to be in Control, they have made this country Worse than Russia or China!
And that’s why they’re focusing on January 6 & Trump’s call to Georgia.
This is called a Distraction to make believe that Biden won the Election!@Health You can’t have a constructive dialog if you keep adding things to talk about. You have to focus on a few specific things at once, otherwise you get what’s called a “Gish Gallop”. So let’s take a few things one at a time. Second, let’s stick to somewhat reliable sources. YWN counts, so does Fox News, PBS, and Daily Wire. OAN, Facebook, NewsMax, and Twitter do not count as reliable sources.
Jessy Jacob Testimony: The (Republican) judge threw out her testimony because
“It asserts behavior with no date, location or frequency or names of employees.
“In addition, [she] offers no indication of whether she took steps to address the alleged misconduct or to [alert] any supervisor about the alleged voter fraud. Ms. Jacob only came forward after the unofficial results of the voting indicated former Vice President Biden was the winner in the state of Michigan.”
In other words, she was willing to testify on the generalities but refused to name any names, times, or places. So her testimony was worthless and not at all indicative of fraud. In all likelihood, her hesitancy was because she misinterpreted something that she saw or maybe just outright lied about it.
So you insist I just comment on your Post about Georgia!
Lucky for you – I found Fraud there too!You did not address the specific claim I brought up, Google “Georgia votes one in quadrillion”. As for the video you mentioned, I actually addressed that in one of my previous comments.
@torahvaluesoverparty Welp, it looks like the Maricopa County audit is going on anyway. I’ll hold you to your word if they don’t find anything substantial.
This new audit in Arizona cannot disprove fraud. It is an attempt count how many ballots can not be traced back to the voter. Which in a secret election is supposed to be almost all of them. I have no idea why it matters anyway.
Yesr -““IT ASSERTS BEHAVIOR WITH NO DATE, LOCATION OR FREQUENCY OR NAMES OF EMPLOYEES.
“IN ADDITION, [SHE] OFFERS NO INDICATION OF WHETHER SHE TOOK STEPS TO ADDRESS THE ALLEGED MISCONDUCT OR TO [ALERT] ANY SUPERVISOR ABOUT THE ALLEGED VOTER FRAUD.”What kind of nonsense is that?!?
No date? The Judge doesn’t know when the election was?
Location – It says clearly the TCF Center.
Names of employees?
She didn’t know their names. She was a Temp.
Complain to Supervisors?
They were the ones who told e/o to Not follow the Rules!“Ms. Jacob’s information is generalized. It asserts behavior with no date, location or frequency or names of employees,” he wrote. “In addition, [she] offers no indication of whether she took steps to address the alleged misconduct or to [alert] any supervisor about the alleged voter fraud. Ms. Jacob only came forward after the unofficial results of the voting indicated former Vice President Biden was the winner in the state of Michigan.”
The complaint, relying on affidavits from Jacob and others, alleges poll workers were instructed by election officials to not verify signatures on absentee ballots and process them regardless of their validity.
“Evidence offered by long-time State Elections Director Christopher Thomas, however, reveals there was no need for comparison of signatures at the TCF Center because eligibility had been reviewed and determined at the Detroit election headquarters,” the ruling states. “As to the allegation of ‘pre-dating’ ballots, Mr. Thomas explains that this action completed a data field inadvertently left blank during the initial absentee ballot verification process.”And why believe Thomas over Jacob?!?
Of course this Judge was just being PC, to Not overturn Detroit’s win for Biden.
Not just this Judge, but even all the way up to SCOTUS.
They punted all the Election cases, so they could claim they are all Moot!
So who are you DemonCrats fooling – that we have Free & Fair Elections?!?
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