- This topic has 66 replies, 38 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 3 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Thanks gavra. I never learnt gemara, so if you have time, can you please explain? Thanks.
There are only three kinds of mamzerim (Hilchos issurei beiah perek 16 IIRC)
Mamzer d’oraisa
Mamzer d’rabbanan
That cop who pulled you over when you were running late for work.
Thanks gavra. I never learnt gemara, so if you have time, can you please explain? Thanks.
I don’t think that it would be correct to do so on an english language thread. It is not exactly something that should be known, lest it become a l’chatchila (IMHO).
Feel free to look into the Artscroll on the gemorah there, or the Shulchan Aruch if you don’t wnat to learn gemorah.
Rabennu Gershom did not issue a takkana. He issued a cherem. It expired some years ago but the Israeli Chief Rabbinate has declared it to now be Minhag Yisrael.
The Teimanim and the Sefardim were never mekabel Rabbeinu Gershom’s cherems.
choppy- they taaneh that the fact theyve been noiheg it limaaseh for a good chunk of time makes it into the standard.
itch- like.
Toi: The Jews in Yemen came to Israel with more than one wife. They were never noheig it. And even the Sefardim I’m not sure they were ever noheig it before they just couldn’t do it because the secular law of the country they moved to prevented them.
If a woman remarried under the assumption her first husband was killed, and someone finds out many years later that her first husband was in fact still alive when she remarried, is he obligated (or allowed) to let her children (born from her second husband while the first was still living) know they are mamzeirim?
By not telling them he is allowing the creation of more mamzeirim when these children and grandchildren (indefinitely) marry. On the other hand, perhaps by not telling (and know one knows) they do not carry the halachic status of mamzeirim?
Shmoel: Learn the last few Perakim of Yevamos and the T’shuvos Nodah Bihudah Even Ha’ezer and then you might be able to think about some of these types of Shailos. (See N”B O”C 1:35 too though, if I recall correctly)
Sam2: Could you be nice enough to summarize how the Gemora and Noda B’Yehuda would address my above shaila? 🙂
Shmoel: No. I honestly couldn’t. I said “think about”, not “answer” because there are always complex Halachic pieces in place in these types of cases. What Eidim are believed to say, who qualifies as an Eid, whether we are able to believe 1 person on such a matter, whether we are allowed to believe 1 Eid, how much proof constitutes proof, etc. I know how I would approach such a case, but it takes someone with magnitudes higher levels of knowledge than myself to be anywhere near confident in giving an answer.
Okay Sam, fair enough. Modify the above shaila to if the first husband himself, after losing contact with his wife due to war, years later finds out she remarried (thinking he died) and had new children. Should he identify himself to and tell those children they’re mamzeirim?
Shmoel: Once again, there are a lot of factors involved that I (or anyone here) is far from qualified to judge. And these questions have to be far more detailed. For example, if there were Eidim that actually said that he died then she might even be allowed to remarry him. But each case like this has thousands of potential Tzdadim and really requires looking into it deeply.
(I had a whole Shtickel written out on some specific cases but I erased them. I am not confident enough in anything I say here to actually post it because I do not know if it’s Emes and do not want to give even the slightest misinformation on a topic like this. Not because this type of topic is more important than any other Halachic topic C”V, but because things like this are so complex that if I were to make a mistake (as happens often enough) it would not be so easy for someone to point it out by just bringing a simple Mareh Makom.)
A mamzer is from a relationship that is forbidden between a man and someone else’s wife. I am not 100% sure about the child of incest, but I would think it includes that as well. A child born to a man and a woman who would otherwise be permitted to him, is NOT a mamzer, even if they did not get married. If he is married, but the woman is not, the child is not a mamzer (but the father sure is, in my book!).
There is a legend about R’ Moshe that he was officiating a wedding and in middle of the chuppa the mother cried out that her son was a mamzer. As the story goes, without a moment’s hesitation R’ Moshe said, “ignore her; her testimony is inadmissible.”
Sam: Somehow I doubt the likelihood that if this shaila c’v arose in real life that the person would google for a teshuva, find your post and pasken off of it.
Englishman: You missed my point. I don’t expect anyone to Pasken from what I say. That’s why I usually cite the approximate source and don’t double-check. I give people a Mareh Makom. Here, that’s not possible. I’m not worried that someone will pasken incorrectly from what I say. I’m worried that a not-easily-disprovable Ziyuf Shel Torah would come from what I write here.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.