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Serious question please:
Is my neshama affected if I hang my women clothes on men’s hangers and/or hand-me-down hangers?
Back in the day, maybe there were unspecified hangers. Nowadays, some hangers are broader to fit the generally broader man’s frame.
Also, some clothes come on hangers and stores give them to you. So even if they look just like the opposite gender’s hanger, they were originally designated for a specific gender of which the item of clothing was sold attached to the hanger.
Thank you
Purim question, or serious?
This is a Purim question, I am assuming?
Question, do you use a separate washing machine for men/women’s clothing?
Answer: Probably not, the same idea applies to hangars, there is no special energy on them, ie. they are used by both genders with no problem.
If this is not Purim Torah you clearly have too much time on your hands
Lesschumras – that’s not a helpful comment. She is learning about Yiddishkeit – cut her some slack please. So many things about Yiddishkeit sound crazy if you never heard of them before, so why should she think these are crazy questions?
And if you do feel it’s necessary to say something, at least say it politely.
lightbrite. it is clear to me you have a very sensitive spirit. and a very open and accepting mind.
nowadays our understanding and sensitivity to the higher spiritual world has been deadened and hidden. trying to grasp it is trying to grasp Hashem. dont let the Yetzer Ha Rah stop you.
Feivel +1 That was really nice!
I think that clothes do not have their own inherent energy, but rather they obtain their energy from the person who is wearing them. For example, a top can be long-sleeved and high-necked, and on one person it can be tznius (let’s say they are thin) and on another it can be not tznius at all because they are heavier and it fits them tightly, so the energy has changed depending on the person wearing the clothes.
Another thought I had is that Shabbos has kedusha and we need to tap into that kedusha that exists. Yom Tov, has a different kedusha, and we as people add to that kedusha. I heard in a shiur that by eating special food and wearing special clothes, we add to the kedusha of Yom Tov. Now for one person, a particular outfit might be something that they would wear on the weekday, especially if they have a job that requires professional dress, but for another person, say someone in school or who does not work, then the same clothes might be appropriate for them for Yom Tov.
I do not think that the clothes off the person keep their energy nor can they convey energy to the hangers on which they hang or the drawers in which they sit.
I do think Feivel’s post was very special and I hope LB gets a lot of chizuk from it; however, please do not get lost in issues on the fringe. There is so much kedusha that can be obtained from the regular things we are doing in our lives but it can be overwhelming if you add too many esoteric issues before you have assimilated within yourself the major issues. There is a wonderful series about the 6 Constant Mitzvos that was given over by R’ Noach Weinberg, ztz”l, from Aish HaTorah. His wife would discuss the issue of women who want to put on tefillin and things like that. She would say that if a woman knew how much there was to do just by keeping the mitzvos she HAS to keep, she wouldn’t have time to deal with those ones that she wants to keep but has no chiyuv in.
Actual clothes-related mitzvas: (feel free to add to the list if I left anything out.) Disclaimer- one should of course ask one’s LOR how to apply these.
1. not allowed to wear shaatnez, a mixture of wool and linen. Items made of wool would therefore need to be checked to make sure they do not have linen threads or linings etc. There are some clothing that are more prone to shaatnez problems and need checking before wearing. Some manufacturers use scraps to finish off clothing that may be problematic.
2. the most obvious, clothing should meet tznius standards
3. women do not wear men’s clothing and vice versa. This applies to also non-clothing, such as accessories and grooming behaviors, some examples that come to mind: women do not carry weapons, men do not dye their hair or wear wigs. (I don’t know what English barristers did if they were frum, perhaps in those times wigs were considered men’s items)
4. special clothing are worn for shabbos and yom tov
5. a mourner tears his clothing at the funeral, and does not change his clothing during the week of mourning. One does not buy/wear new clothing during the month/year of mourning.
6. One does not wash clothing or wear freshly washed clothing during the 9 days before 9 B’Av (due to mourning).
7. One does not do laundry during chol hamoed. exceptions for 6 and 7 are for small children who need constant changing.
8. During the period of mourning between Pesach and Shavous (popularly known as sefira), one does not wear new clothing that would require a bracha of sheheheyanu- generally said on items that are purchased infrequently that bring special delight when worn.
9. Kittle (white robe-like thing) is worn by men at Seder and on Yom Kippur, some also on Rosh Hashana.
10. Tradition to wear white on Yom Kippur, to resemble angels. see 9.
11. we don’t wear leather shoes on Yom Kippur or 9 B’Av
12. Men if wearing a garment with 4 corners, need to put tzitzis on the corners. It is accepted to purposely wear such a garment to fulfill the mitzva.
Anything else. It’s amazing how many mitzvas/minhagim there are with clothing!
LU, LB is obviously sincere but also quite naive. You can’t accept and and treat every minhag and old wives tale the same. From what I’ve seen, to her every word of every Rav must be believed as halacha mSenai. Somewhere and somehow she has to develop the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. Utter naivete can be as ultimately problematic as utter cynicism
Can you have male and female hangers in the same closet? Would it make a difference if there were a mechitza?
lesschumras’ posts in this thread should be deleted, since they are insults. Would a comment like “[Commenter X] is a jerk!” be approved?
That is not what his post says and no, such a post would not have been approved. Being naive, as in underexposed, is hardly an insult.
“there is even a “Jewish way” to bathe oneself.”
Its called soap and shampoo. Just make sure to use the gender appropriate soap and shampoo.
lbrite,
(If this supposed to be purim leitzunus)
you surely will be affected
For penance, use only gender specific shampoo for 9 months
What? Telling someone to “get a life” is not an insult? That’s pure negativity.
Thank you for clarifying which post.
LB, ultimately you are correct in that you have to follow the path that works for you. Just keep in mind that concepts like male and female hangers, while they work for you, can be sources of humor for others.
Lesschumras: “LU, LB is obviously sincere but also quite naive. You can’t accept and and treat every minhag and old wives tale the same. From what I’ve seen, to her every word of every Rav must be believed as halacha mSenai. Somewhere and somehow she has to develop the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. Utter naivete can be as ultimately problematic as utter cynicism”
True, and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you on what you wrote in this post. The problem was the way it was phrased in the original post. This is much better, I think (although we can let LB be the judge of that).
At the same time though, try to keep in mind that it’s not so simple l’maaseh. She is a beginner and she is trying to figure things out and Judaism is confusing. And while everyone keeps telling her she needs a Rav or that she shouldn’t believe what everyone tells her, she has to first figure out who that Rav should be and what hashkafa he should have, and she can only do that by investigating and exploring and questioning and trying to figure things out. That is exactly what she is trying to do with her questions!
If she is asking questions, it is precisely BECAUSE she is not simply accepting everything but is in fact trying to figure things out.
It’s a process and she is doing a good job of proceeding.
“Thank you for clarifying which post.”
I think it might also have been this:
“If this is not Purim Torah you clearly have too much time on your hands”
It does look like you deleted something (I think it must have been the main problematic comment) so thank you for that! Much appreciated!
And thanks, YYTZ!
lesschumras – thanks so much for rephrasing in a way that gets the point across without being insulting!
Lightbrite,
If you don’t want to pack your groceries in a spam box, go ahead.
But it is very important that you understand that there is absolutely no comparison between that and tying our shoes in the correct order.
One is halacha and one is not.
I don’t think it’s so much about energy contained within objects as it is more simply about not doing that which is prohibited. Cross-dressing is prohibited, while using hangers of the opposite gender is not. The problem with Indian hair wigs is the prohibition of giving money to/benefiting from avodah zarah, not spiritual energy contained in the hair.
Except for skirt hangers, my wife and I use the same hangers all the time. I guess we’re really spiritually mixed up.
The Wolf
(Interesting fact: My father and grandparents used to make hangers. I remember when I was a kid watching wire coming off these huge spools (at least six feet tall) and being fed into these machines that bent and twisted them. My favorite part was the part that created the little twisted braid near the top.)
“Women not wearing men’s clothing and men not wearing women’s clothing is also halacha.”
??
It is an explicit passuk
It is an explicit passuk
And that invalidates what lightbrite said, how????
Are not the directives of explicit pesukim also halacha?
The Wolf
The definition of male vs female clothes constantly changes. Just look at portraits from the 18th century. The well dressed man wore powdered wigs. At different points in time Jews in the middle East and North Africa wore robes. You can’t apply 21st century standards to prior centuries and vice versa
LB, while hangers have no problems, and I am a bit bothered by your use of the term energy, since it reminds me of Eastern practices that could be questionable, but you are picking up on something that can be found in halacha- the idea that an object can pick up something that makes it more than just an object- for example, an object retains some kedusha if it was used for a mitzva, or l’havdil, it retains some tuma because it was used for an aveira. Used chanuka wicks, lulavim and esrogim after sukkos- they retain some status after they no longer serve their purpose, many people do not throw them out but burn them with the chometz. And objects used for avoda zora need to be destroyed. which brings up the Indian hair issue- clarification – either the hair was donated to the temple, and was then used in their rituals and therefore considered an actual object of avoda zara, or it was donated in order to be sold and raise money for the temple. These possibilities raised serious halachic problems that led to people avoiding Indian hair altogether. It was never about using hair from people who were idol worshipers.
feivel,
nowadays our understanding and sensitivity to the higher spiritual world has been deadened and hidden. trying to grasp it is trying to grasp Hashem. dont let the Yetzer Ha Rah stop you.
I agree with this in principle, but one must be careful in the application. Our conduit to the spiritual world is Torah, and its core precepts should garner our primary attention. Spices smell very good and therefore capture our attention, and, applied with skill, can turn a regular meal into a gourmet masterpiece. But chasing after spices when there is no meat to put it on makes no meal at all.
Wolf,
Judaism is a Value pyramid
An explicit ‘Lav’ is higher
In the case before us,
Putting the two on the same level is incorrect.
Wolf,
A ‘Lav’ with Capital punishment outranks a ‘lav’ with Kareis
and so on
Although there are exceptions
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