Makeup on Shabbos

afaik

1: no – its still tzoveiah cause it’s a color. and its smearing

2: no – also a color. about coverup ask, some poskim give heterim

3: yes, and you can use soap too

just fyi, they sell Shabbos make up which is in line with r’ moshe feinstein

To clarify what resident of ds9 wrote, the only soap that can be used on Shabbos is liquid soap. (Not bar soap.)

you can use eye makeup remover, but you cannot use cotton balls to apply it. Or tissues. Though you can pour it onto your hand, rub it on, then wipe off with tissues.

I think it says something about our generation that people are asking about makeup on shabbos. it’s not allowed, get over it. just put a little more on before shabbos or find a really good base that will help it stay, and then sleep on your back (oh, you probably don’t want to mess up your hair though…)

I have no problem with all my makeup having come off by the next day though. For all those who can’t live without makeup on shabbos/yom tov, how are you gonna cope when you are married and will have shabbosos/yamim tovim without being able to wear makeup at all?

I feel very fortunate. Hashem made me beautiful just the way I am. I never wear makeup. (And if those of you who know me disagree, you can keep your thoughts to yourself) 🙂

notasheep: thsts who they officially created it for.

Halfagirl – You’re the kind of girl I admire. Maybe you should lecture at womans groups and at Bais Yaakovs. Too much emphasis on superficiality in our community.

Nitpicker: And anyone who wants to Assur anything can keep asking until you find someone who forbids it. Neither one of those is the way of Halachah.

to sam2

you missed my point.

indeed, neither one of those is the way of halacha.

one can look for truth or look for a result.

either way this is not the place for it. it is expressly against the stated (but not always practiced) rules of the cr as it should be. great harm is done by threads like this.

Oomis, your comparison of those who are machmir on Shabbos make up to the tzedukim is offensive.

As to the halacha, R’ Moshe zt”l was practically a daas yochid, most poskim forbade “Shabbos” make up in any form (a well known rov, for reasons I will explain, calls it “chillul Shabbos make up”). Regarding his heter and it’s applicability, he showed R’ Blumenkrantz zt”l how to check if the make up was sufficiently dry to be muttar; there is nobody alive today AFAIK who had shimush from R’ Moshe on how to test.

The heter is based upon there being no oils whatsoever to aid in the make up holding fast to the skin. It is obviously in the manufacturer’s best interest to have the make up stay on for some period of time, otherwise it’s an almost useless product.

Additionally, if there are any remnants of make up on the woman’s face from a prior application, it will be assur even if it were made according to R’ Moshe’s standards, even according to R’ Moshe; improving an existing color is also assur because of tzovaya, and the “Shabbos” make up will most definitely stick to the old make up in a manner which is certainly forbidden.

Furthermore, the heter as formulated by R’ Blumenkrantz with R’ Moshe’s psak, was only issued because there were people who were putting on regular make up on Shabbos. It was never intended for use by anyone who would otherwise refrain from putting on make up, and nobody in R’ Blumenkrantz’ family ever used it.

I need to point out that Oomis’ comparison to tzedukim was likely unintentional, and any offense certainly was. She never tries to offend anyone.

sam2 wrote:

“nitpicker: I sort of hear that. But I always assume that people in the cr are looking for discussion, not P’sak. Just like you wouldn’t Pasken based on a conversation with your Chavrusa in the Beis Medrash, so too no one Paskens here, but the discussion is the same type of discussion.

“

that is plainly ridiculous and circular reasoning. with that logic, there need not be any rule like that all, for one can assume that no one would ask halacha l’maasa here or answer.

Nonsense that is exacly what is happening here all the time.

And even if OP or posters didn’t meant that, lurkers will clearly take it that way for sure.

it is also not the “same type of discussion” because

YOU ARE NOT IN THE BAIS MEDRASH TALKING WITH YOUR CHAVRUSA!

to daas yochid

I am shocked! I believe it is the other way around. Not rav Moshe was a daas yochid in this matter but rav blumenkrantz was the daas yochid in interpreting what rav moshe wrote. That is why poskim call it chillul Shabbos, not because they disagree with rav moshe.

I didn’t want to mention individuals by name but since you did, I had no choice but to follow up. another bad thing about the CR.

I know am on shaky ground here because someone may know more than is in the original tshuva, but until demonstrated otherwise this is how I think it is.

It is also strange to say that Rav Blumenkrantz did not mean for everyone,

where is the evidence of that?

and now I am done with this thread.

If the makeup were really an issur from every standpoint, with no mitigating factors to mattir it, it would not be muttar.

That is correct. R’ Blumenkrantz obviously felt that there was a legitimate tzad heter, but it doesn’t mean that everyone should use it, and I heard directly from a family member that he only got involved in the production of this make up because there were people who would otherwise put on make up with no tzad heter.

Halachah is not always black and white, and any yarei shamayim should have standards somewhat above the absolute minimum, each one l’fi madreigaso.

Hello to Jason Isaacs!

Thanks DY.

golfer- thank you, yes thats a bad error. MODS can you please change that to ”canNOT use cotton balls”? And golfer, i was so inclined to reread my post, but I had to first come on to the CR, which i am not on all day or even every day.

Haifagirl and notasheep- boruch Hashem you have clear skin and a face you are comfortable with bare. Not everyone is as lucky, and some people have scars, discoloration, mild to severe acne, etc, that makes them feel insecure or just ugly to go out with bare. I’ve known girls who don’t go out shabbos day because of their appearance when they can’t hide it.

Hi younglady! Understood.

But just thought I’d let you know (since I am no longer a young lady, and have most likely been asking rabbis questions for years and years more than you) rabbis are SO NOT clueless! About anything. You wouldn’t believe the things they know all about, makeup included. And when they’re not sure what you’re asking about they’ll be so interested to ask you all the right questions just so they can help you figure out what to do in a particular circumstance. The one time I stumped a Rabbi (!!!) with a question about an obscure, old-fashioned kitchen appliance that came with my very first apartment, he kindly directed me to a certain Rabbi (made sure I got all the contact info) who knew exactly what to do.

Mazel Tov to all on the upcoming Simcha!

Halachah is not always black and white, and any yarei shamayim should have standards somewhat above the absolute minimum, each one l’fi madreigaso. “

We surely agree in that! But also keep in mind that the MINIMUM Halacha IS the Halacha. If it were not, then the person would be oveir the Halacha.

If Hashem were displeased with our following only the minimum, wouldn’t ir make sense to say that He have raised the bar Himself l’chatchilah, so that the minimum was much more stringent? I may hold a certain way in a specific area of Halacha that is more personally machmir than another person, but if that person is following Ratzon Hashem, even if it is more lenient than what I do, he is likewise a frum Yid. In any case, I agree that people should always seek to elevate their avodas Hashem, as long as they do not disparage those whose avoda is at a different hashkafic level.

Sorry, now you stumped me!

DY: That was *not* the most egregious typo in your post. Auto-correct does funny things sometimes…

Says Me – do you know what my skin is like? You are assuming that the reason I am comfortable with my makeup coming off by shabbos morning is cause I have clear skin. That may be the case (as far as I am concerned you had no way of knowing that though), however my skin colouring and complexion mean I look like I am ill if I don’t wear makeup (since I have extremely pale skin and very pink cheeks – not a good combination for someone who is dark haired!)

I am not putting down those who have scarring or bad acne, but the reason those girls won’t go out on shabbos is not because of their skin, it’s because of their self-image and self-esteem. Not everyone with facial issues feels the need to stay indoors when they can’t put makeup on.

And, I don’t know that any make-up was ever manufactured according to R’ Moshe’s psak; I’m even more doubtful today.”

So check into it further. You may be pleasantly surprised at what you find out.

I don’t think shaas had’chak is minimal Halacha. It is Halacha for a rare emergency occurrence, isn’t it, when one has no other choice?

You may eat meat under one type of very machmir hashgocha. Perhaps I eat meat under another one, more mainstream. If you were to eat the same meat as I, because there was nothing else available, you might feel that is shaas had’chak. But if that meat is meeting (pun intended) the minimal proper standards of kashrus, you may not want it for yourself, but it certainly is no shaas had’chak for most people. For me Sh”H might mean eating NON-glatt meat that I knew to be kosher because I had no food and needed protein and that was all that was available or would be available (though I would just eat whole fruit or vegetables, probably, in that case). It’s a semantic issue in many ways. Allowing a permissible form of makeup is not equivalent to eating what someone else might consider as non-kosher. I do understand your point, however.

(just a restatement of what I said before)

daasyochid

so you maintain that other poskim agree with rav blumenkrantz that rav moshe would have permitted this makeup, but they themselves disagree with this heter of rav Moshe’s.

while I maintain that other poskim disagree with rav blumenkrantz in inferring such a heter in rav moshe’s tshuva.

perhaps I am wrong but I have seen nothing to make me change this opinion.

but wait, you also said that no makeup conforms to “rav Moshe’s heter” which would mean you yourself disagree with rav blumenkrantz! I can’t figure out what you hold at all.

and now having just restated what I said earlier (well a little more) there is not much point in my commenting further.

which ‘both’ do you mean?

both of the following cannot be true unless…. (sentence finished later)

1) rav blumenkrantz was of the opinion that rav moshe would have permitted the makeup. other poskim disgree with this inference of rav blumenkrantz. they believe that rav moshe would not have perimitted it.

2) the other poskim agree with rav blumenkrantz’s conclusion about rav moshe but they themselves disagree with rav moshe in this matter. they themselves forbid the makeup.

these are mutually exclusive

…. unless we are talking about a different set of poskim.

I maintain that important poskim who fobid it take position 1.

that is based on the vehemence of their objection. )

however, throughout you keep referring to “rav moshe’s heter” and also say that rav moshe was a daas yochid in this matter. thus agreeng that rav moshe (and almost only rav moshe) would have permitted it. You also say that no makeup complies with “rav moshes heter” thus disagreeing with rav blumenkrantz. these are not compatible.

Good night.