Make The Seder Great Again

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Make The Seder Great Again

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2383717
    Baki Bshas
    Participant

    The mitzva of the night on pesach is Sipur Yetzias Mitzrayim. Specifically Vehigadta Lvincha… So why do all the schools teach the kids 34 different vorts on why the Karpas is a potato… Pesach in our generation became kids telling their fathers cute gematrias about the Arba Bonim instead of fathers sharing the Yesodos of Emuna to their kids… MAKE THE SEDER GREAT AGAIN!

    #2384446
    akuperma
    Participant

    To make the seder great again, go back to the original text of the Mah Nishtanah (found in the Mishna), and remember to bring a korban. If you can’t do it correctly, then the seder will most certainly be not great, but merely a shadow of what was and will be again.

    #2384786
    @fakenews
    Participant

    I can’t tell you how to run your seder, nor can tell your children’s rebbeim and teachers how to teach, but I can point out that most of the effort they put in to preparing your child for pesach is focused on ensuring they stay engaged.
    If you dont like it, try homeschooling?

    Can we take a peek at why this bothers you so much though? Is your child explaining to you that karpas is a potato that irritating to you?
    Can you please take some time to focus on your children in a positive light?

    #2384791

    Baki, you are right. Just collect all vorts at the beginning and give them out as afikoman. Then, sit down and have a conversation with your children. Let them ask their own questions. Or teach them how if they do not know how to ask.

    #2385025
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    What an outright Chutzpah to suggest that you know more than the Gedolim who have devoted all of their time to studying the words the Torah and Chazal in order to understand what Hashem wants from us and then do it.\

    You should seriously work on your Kavod Hatorah! Which starts by respecting its Learners!

    #2385234
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    so perhaps you believe that a father shouldn’t try to get his children engaged in the story of yetzias mitzraim and allow them to share what they’ve learned and instead insist they focus their attention on HIS description of events and shut down their enthusiasm with a verbal “הקהה את שיניו”

    #2385270

    Fake, a mitzva in the Torah is for fathers to educate their children. Schools are tools to fulfil that mitzvah. Sometimes, school is useful, sometimes not, sometimes partially useful. Look at Bava Basra describing how education system evolved during 2nd Beis Mikdash times. The first attempt was for fathers to teach sons. It did not work – as a general system – because not fathers were capable of teaching. Then, they tried most exciting teachers in Yerushalaim, then teaching teewangers, … until they came to the system of teaching little kids locally. So, logically, the school system is great to maintain public education, but it does not mean that parents who are capable of teaching should not shoot for better.

    See another thread, a quote from ard, attributing success of Steipler in raising a great child was due to him playing out every prasha … why didn’t he just stick to the gemora and leave teaching kids to professionals …

    #2385271

    GH,
    I think the middle ground is to get children engaged themselves, rather than recite materials they were given. You can simply go through those materials in advance and select some or see how you can direct that material to a topic you think they should be paying attention to.

    #2385380
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    If you want to get the children engaged then you first need to speak to a shadchan to find your child a chosson/Kallah

    #2385681
    peacebeuponus
    Participant

    All this new-age bending over backwards and doing things wrong “for the children” is sickening and against the Torah. Our holy Torah says Vehigadetoh Lebincho and NOT Vehigadetoh Leovicho.

    #2385728

    Sam has the best answer.

    #2385744
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    The people who complain about the children having Divrei Torah to say at Maggid, aren’t bothered by having the podium taken from themselves, but rather because they want to just zip through Maggid.

    If you would entertain your children with elucidation, they wouldn’t be so tempted so recite everything they learnt. Personally, I find it wonderful when they share insightful Divrei Torah. You can then agree, disagree, modify, add, or discuss further.

    #2385864
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    If you really want to “Make The Seder Great Again”,
    then I suggest that every large Orthodox synagogue,
    or even every medium-sized Orthodox synagogue,
    should provide free public Pesach Sedarim,
    that any Jew can attend for free.

    Please do not make the mistake of assuming
    that “everyone” has a Pesach Seder to go to.

    Widows and widowers, gerim, baalei teshuvah, old people,
    poor people, travelers, yordim, students from out-of-town
    may have no place to go to for Pesach Sedarim.

    If you also offered the daytime Yom Tov seudot,
    then that would help even more people.

    #2385868
    Yaapchik
    Participant

    Is the school doing it because Rebbes have seen since September that most parents aren’t as capable and the school wants so very much to help the children to be as great as they can be? Parents are great people but most cannot teach so yhe school does it.

    #2385993
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    HaLeiVi, there is a middle ground. I’m happy to have my kids say Divrei Torah, but there are 2 other things I bear in mind. First, the mitzvah is on me to tell over the story to them, not the other way around. Second, I try very hard to have the Afikomen before chatzos, and if possible, to finish the 4th cup by then too.
    So I tell my kids beforehand that I want to hear what they have to say, but we do need to bear those things in mind. I tell them to keep some of their Divrei Torah for the daytime meals, and we can hear it then!
    I believe my seder will be great this year. At first, I was disappointed that I wouldn’t be having guests. I invited a number of people, including some whom I believed could use a place, but didn’t get any acceptances. But just the other day, my wife found someone who needed a place, and she accepted our invitation. So now we will be having a guest at our seder!
    My Rebbe, R’ Bender, always says that Simchas Yom Tov isn’t complete unless you’re sharing it with others.

    #2386204
    ard
    Participant

    i think sam klein finally got to the psychiatrist

    #2386206

    Yaapchik > most parents aren’t as capable

    obviously, the question here is what parents who are capable should do. They should not be shy teaching their own Torah knowledge, saying that it is school’s job.

    #2386339
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    DaMoshe said:

    “I tell them to keep some of their Divrei Torah
    for the daytime meals, and we can hear it then!”

    =============================

    MY RESPONSE:

    I have been saying this for more than 30 years.

    It pleases me to hear someone agree with me.

    #2386430

    al pi my hagada, children have a say. I always stop before ma nishtana with an awkward pause, saying I can’t continue .. until I have questions.

    The question mode might relate to the halakha that a child is not supposed to correct his father, but rather ask him – doesn’t the Torah say this?
    So, maybe we are modeling to children how they should express themselves, and not presume they, and their printed divrei Torah, are the answers.

    R Twersky writes that one thing he does not understand in life is – people, mostly, become wiser with years. At the same time, we are making the most important decisions – haskhafa, job, marriage – when we are young. He says he doesn’t understand how Hashem made the world this way. The only solution is for young people to take input from older people when making those decisions.

    So, maybe the goal of teaching children to ask rather than to recite is to develop tis ability to ask for advice when they’ll need it. So, maybe this is the problem with schooling – kids are constantly doing some obscure specialized tasks where they do not need help from parents/mature adults. This conditions them to not seek advice when needed.

    #2386449
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    DaMoshe, that’s the way to go!

    Surely, you aren’t complaining about them having what to say.

    #2386993

    DaMoshe > I try very hard to have the Afikomen before chatzos, and if possible, to finish the 4th cup by then too. … So I tell my kids beforehand that I want to hear what they have to say,

    Upon second reading, I don’t fully agree. I thought you have a problem with kids reading school-prepared divrei Torah that may or may not correspond to what you want to talk about. At the same time, the whole point of the seder is to engage children. If they have something to say on their own, they should say it, maybe in a way you can answer him. The same applies to guests, especially if they are not very observant/knowledgeable, the goal is to get them into the discussion. In some circumstances, you do not even need to read the whole Hagaddah. I am machmir on the main Torah mitzvah of sipur yatziyat mitzrayim than finish 4th cup by chatzos (even number of cups is midrabanan!)

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.