- This topic has 44 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 11 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Maharat Weiss is very busy with trying to make women and men equal, which he defines as “the same”. But is constantly being frustrated by the old fashioned folks who tell him that he should at least pretend to follow the Torah.
He started a yeshiva to make female rabbis, but then the RCA said they would be very mad at him if he called them rabbis, so he called them maharats instead, which makes him very sad.
Popa would like him to be happy, so here is a suggestion (not popa’s original, unfortunately): Simply start calling yourself and your male graduates Maharat’s also! This will make everyone equal and the same!
In fact, he can even take this further. He is also sad that his female Maharats are unable to be dayanim. So what he should do, is to say that his male maharats also cannot be dayanim! Or eidim! (Truth is they are passul l’eidus anyway because http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/lol-they-are-apikorsim/)
I’m so glad to be of assistance. It makes me so happy to be able to help them without breaking halacha. (See, I also like to make people happy, but I like to keep halacha–probably because I’m not an apikores).
Hat tip: My friday night host. The meal was excellent–particularly the chicken.)
I think that tomorrow Chammisho Ossor b’Ov they shall have a very active moment defining their true essence.
They shall be put to the test, whether to dress all in white to attract a mate, or whether to dress in black like many men rabbis dress in.
It’s amusing. They don’t seem to understand that in traditional Hebrew, ??? is the courtesy title for an adult (married) women, equivalent to “Mrs.” in English, “Madame” in French, or “Frau” in German.
As long as they stick to keeping Shabbos, Kashruth, Taharas ha-Mishpacha and semblance of modesty – they can be amusing frum Jews with nutty ideas rather than be seen as mortal enemies out to destroy Torah (as is the case with Conservatives, Reform, secular Zionists, and perhaps the more extreme movements in the Dati Leumi camp such as those who want to close down Israeli yeshivos under the pretext of conscription).
Popa, why do you care so much about what YCT rabbis do or believe? You are the one that makes a bigger deal out of it than anyone else!
Also, your friday night meal would be better served with divrei torah, chizuk or whatever. point is, don’t use that time of kedushah to bash other Jews and waste time talking about their shtus.
I am not a rabbi… although I play one on TV.
If you really want to do something impactful to stop them, go protest and send letters to members of your tzibbur, or do anything other than just saying leitzonus on the coffee room.
Why do you like making fun of people? That doesn’t sound like a very torahdig activity
It may be mutar to make fun of apikorsim, but it is certainly not a mitzvah. There are more productive things you could be doing with your time. For instance, instead of mocking YCT’s fake Torah, you could be learning some real Torah.
I know the rabbi of Brandeis and hes a chovavei graduate. The chovavei graduates get really good jobs after they graduate. The institution has so much money. Howard Jonas and Charlie kushner are huge donors. As long as they have money they will be successful. Btw I’m totally against their hashkafa. I disagree with everything they do
Akuperma,
1. You don’t seem to understand Hebrew. It’s ???”? It seems that a title is very important. Nobody complaims about “????? ????” and I imagine that nobody would claim about “pastoral counselor”.
2. Nobody wants to close down yeshivot. If you haven’t noticed, the Dati Leumi sector also has yeshivot. People want those who aren’t learning to do something productive for both the country and themselves. This will also benefit the yeshivot and the general Chareidi community as it will remove the burden of supporting them, get them off the streets and create a pool of financial contributors. The latter is especially important as the economic situation is drying up sources from abroad.
“I like making fun of people.”
How is being proud of your bad middot consistent with Orthodox teachings?
Where are you? In Kansas, where the non-mechitza shul has a YCT rabbi? From what I gather, YCT graduates tend to be hired in non-denominational contexts (chaplaincy, teaching, Hillel, etc.), or by synagogues in out of town places where the Orthodox synagogue has mainly nonobservant members, or they’re taken on as rabbis in a handful of more progressive shuls (such as Kadimah Toras Moshe in Brighton, HIR, the shul in Potomac, etc.)
Jfem: While I am not a posek, I am not sure you are correct. It very well may be a mitzvah to belittle apikorsim.
Doniel, Rav Soloveichik allowed some of his talmidim to be rabbis of Conservative temples if he felt that they could improve the situation. A liberal Orthodox rabbi may be just what some people need to stay or become shomer Shabbat, kashrut etc.
There is truth behind that, especially considering that the mechitza’s legal status is flimsy, to put it mildly. They actually had a policy of not placing their musmachim in non-mechitza shuls, but that policy changed. Now, 2 Orthodox synagogues lacking mechitza, in Overland Park and Denver, have YCT rabbis.
Avi K, are you implying that one makes the other correct?
Serving as Rabbi in a Conservative temple, within halachicly prescribed boundaries, is one thing.
By the way, we know the results of that experiment; many who tried this became, themselves, Conservative, and this is liDoros unless those descendants come back BE”H.
But how does this allow a “liberal Orthodox” anything?
Ender, last I checked, I didn’t see that in Rambam’s list of the Taryag.
AK,
Or if they are homosexual and would not want to have relations outside of marriage. You would need one of these to perform the ceremony. You know there are any number of YCT graduates who would perform such a ceremony.
“How is being proud of your bad middot consistent with Orthodox teachings?”
Yet again your reading comprehension fails you.
PBA confesses that he has a ??? ??? to make fun of people. Which he oppresses and uses in halachically prescribed ways. Which is making fun of ????????? and ?????????. This seems to be exactly in line with Orthodox teachings.
On the other hand, it is difficult to reconcile actions undertaken as “social action” that are diametrically opposed to the Torah to a Torah lifestyle or Orthodox teachings.
Katan, I think it is more correct to be the rav of an Orthodox shul that attracts people who are in danger or prospective BTs.As for justifying liberal Orthodoxy, eilu v’eilu. If it is within halachically justifiable bounds it is allowed in that community. One could similarly ask and answer how stringent Orthodoxy is allowed. In the tefilla upon entering the bet midrash we ask Hashem to save us from pronouncing tamei tahor and from pronouncing tahor tamei.
jfem- again, the CC in shmiras halashon says its a good thing. As the popular saying goes, he wrote the book on the subject and is probably a good source.
Jfem: I’m sure you are quite aware that the things frum yidden should or should not do isn’t limited to the Taryag mitzvos.
Avi K: While Rav Soloveichik may have said what you quote him as saying, his cousin, the other Rav Soloveichik (Brisker Rav), said that it is better to go into a church than a reform temple. He went as far to say that it might be Yaharog V’all Ya’avor. The reason he said is because the church is foreign to us, there isn’t a significant chance we would be influenced. As opposed to reform and conservative which are religions similar to ours there is a bigger chance that we may be influenced by their ways, c”v.
Avi K and Doniel,
Did Rav Soloveichik’s view on mechitzas include Shabbos ‘microphones’ in use by Orthodox Shul ? Are the microphones developed by the Zomet Institute really approved for Shabbos use? http://www.zomet.org.il/Eng/?CategoryID=251&ArticleID=116&Page=1
“???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?’ ???? ?’ – ????: “???? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ????????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??????”.
??????- “???????? ???? ????? ?????… ?????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???…”
I think it is a great idea.
Popa would like him to be happy, so here is a suggestion (not popa’s original, unfortunately): Simply start calling yourself and your male graduates Maharat’s also! This will make everyone equal and the same!
In fact, he can even take this further. He is also sad that his female Maharats are unable to be dayanim. So what he should do, is to say that his male maharats also cannot be dayanim! Or eidim! (Truth is they are passul l’eidus anyway because http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/lol-they-are-apikorsim/)
This is so good it deserves to be quoted.
^ No it doesn’t. He doesn’t understand that equality doesn’t mean that everyone has to be the same. A man can be called a Rabbi, and a woman can be called a maharat in the yct world and to them they are the equal, regardless of their titles because they play equal religiously important roles in that world.
You oversimplify their position, and then make fun of your oversimplification, instead of finding the real facts. That’s not funny, it’s simply immature and ignorant leitzonus. If you want to make fun of apikorsim and apikorsus go ahead, but it’s a foolish endeavor. Either complain to the people that matter (people that actually DISAGREE with you), and have a real substantive discussion, or go do something else that doesn’t attack other Jews, dividing us even more and making the geulah drag on and on because of your leitzonus…
Popa, I, for one, got a kick out of your leitzonus. Keep up the wonderful work. It’s nice when you bring up a touchy hashkafic subject such as this. When you come out and step on toes we get to see who winces.
AviK – Marat (as they pronounce it) is little better than a play on words of the traditional term used for all respectable women. It’s like claiming that the “M.R.S.” is an degree to be obtained by women in college (as was the tradition until recently). The conservadox have a problem since Hebrew, like most languages, has genders, and the words for female “Rabbi” always implies the wife of rabbi (since a scholar would only marry someone fit to be the wife of a scholar, and a women with learning would only marry a scholar).
The “legal advisors” you mentioned are an Israeli government creation, so no one cares. Traditionally, any person, male or female, could give all the legal advice they wanted to whomever they wanted. In the Jewish tradition, there is nothing equivalent to an Advocate (Barrister, Lawyer, etc.). Everyone was expected to study law (including women who needed commercial law to engage in business). All litigants were required to present their argument pro se, and the judges had a duty to make sure the law and facts were correctly presented (unlike the narrower row of especially common law judges).
I do know that R’ Simcha Levy and R’ Poliakoff of Baltimore allowed a microphone’s use on shabbat. A lack of scientific understanding regarding electricity results in many faulty psakim.
rationalfrummie
“dividing us even more and making the geulah drag on and on because of your leitzonus”
It is a mitzvah to make fun of apikorsim and call them out in public so that others dont get sucked in. There is no inyan of achdus with such people. They want to uproot our Torah and play games with it as they see fit. Thats not the Ratzon Hashem in any way shape or form. The arrogance of these clowns is astounding. I wish Rav Moshe were still alive he would have put them all in cherem.
Moshiach will come when we all have the guts to stand up for what Hashem deems right. Political correctness is not a Jewish concept. We have a Torah to tell us how to live, who to respect, who to make fun of and who to put in cheirem and ostracize. Its only by living up to the demands of that holy Torah fully that we can expect Moshiach to come.
“Jfem: I’m sure you are quite aware that the things frum yidden should or should not do isn’t limited to the Taryag mitzvos.”
Your original statement was that it’s a mitzvah. You must have meant “mitzvah” in the Reform sense.
jewishfeminist02
“”Jfem: I’m sure you are quite aware that the things frum yidden should or should not do isn’t limited to the Taryag mitzvos.”
There are mitzvos that are min hatorah but not counted among the 613.
My dear friends, I think that everyone should click on PBAs username before taking him so seriously.
“This has got to be the most ironic defense of YCT ever.’
And it was coauthored by Susan Aranoff and Rivka Haut, no less. While off the Wall at Robinson’s Arch.
rebdoniel,
My rebbi in Halacha told me in the name of R’Elyashiv that the only problem with the modern microphone (the original microphones worked differently) was zilusa d’shabbos.
I am not a Mahar”at… and I most emphatically don’t play one on TV.
Zilusa d’ shabbos and uvda l’chol are totally, 100% subjective phenomena. Your rebbe’s psak shows that Rav Elyashiv agreed more or less with Rav Shlomo Zalman’s psak on electricity.
In all honesty, while I don’t operate electricity on shabbos, I honestly know that this is a fixture of convention, rather than any actual halakhic concern.
Akuperma,
You are partially correct and partially incorrect.
Originally professional litigators were unknown (although contract writing was an honorable profession – this was one of the original meanings of “sofer”). It was also considered wrong to give legal advice to a non-relative or even a relative in the case of a talmid chacham (Ketubot 85b-86a) as this would be to another person’s detriment. Being that in the anarchic situation that followed in the wake of the Roman persecutions many people were afraid to sue strongmen people were allowed to sell their claims to other strongmen. Eventually the rabbanim reluctantly allowed people to be represented by litigators. This was due to the fact that many people lacked halachic knowledge or were tongue-tied when speaking before dayanim. Today litigators, known as “toanim” or “toanim rabbani’im”, and appear in battei din of all streams.
As for general halachic advice, when everyone knew the level of knowledge of their fellows there was indeed no reason for a special certification (although originally Mosaic semicha was required to be a judge and apparently there was also some type of certification in Bavel as most Amoraim are referred to a “rav”). Later the increased impersonal and mobile nature of society as well as the desire to honor people who attained a certain degree of knowledge led to the bestowing of titles such as “moreinu”, “chaver” and “rav”. In the US there are also income tax distinctions that flow from a person being considered “clergy”.
Who cares? Those who follow, or at least respect, the designator of the title.
PBA: You love doing mitzvos where you get to be purposefully rude and mean to other human beings. If your conscience is okay with that, go ahead. Just know that being annoying isn’t going to make people want to listen to what you have to do say.
WIY: Wrong. The people that stand up so zealously for what they believe in are called Kanoim, and they are the ones who get in the goyishe newspapers because they act so foolishly, supposedly for the sake of standing up for tznius, shabbos, etc. Throwing a rock at a car on shabbos is standing up for shabbos and yiddishkeit, but it’s stupid all the same and a chilllul hashem. Making fun of YCT might be okay and even a mitzvah, but it causes massive rifts in klal yisroel. Why don’t you accept them with one hand and push with the other as the gemara says, rather than push away with both?? Or are you too smart for the gemara now?
Throwing a rock at a car on shabbos is standing up for shabbos and yiddishkeit, but it’s stupid all the same and a chilllul hashem.
Don’t be dolt. Nobody thinks its standing up for shabbos to throw rocks at cars. The people who do that are juvenile delinquents.
Spreading hotzaas shem ra, on the other hand, apparently some think is standing up for rationalism and frumkeit. Just sayin’
rebdoniel,
Even according to R’Shlomo Zalman and R’Elyashiv you cannot turn on and off electric circuits. Usage of a microphone, because it is on the whole time (and in modern microphones there isn’t even a change in current), doesn’t involve the creation or completion of a circuit.
Those who allowed a microphone would turn it on prior to Shabbat and not turn it off until after Shabbat.
I don’t see how manipulating the flow of electrons qualifies as melakha.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.