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Everyone here obviously owns, &/or uses a computer.
My questions is, what do you prefer, a mac, or a pc?
This should be fun 😉
Joseph:
Lame. Try better next time.
joseph, i hope you were joking.
a pc for teh same price as a mac, will always get you further, especially if you have it built. why get a mac wiht an intel chip which has an os built not for an intel chip, then get a pc, which is made for an intel chipset?!
mariner- as usual when it comes to tech you say stuff that only you and Bill Gates understand. Please have the rest of YW in mind when you explain some technological. Cheers! 😉
p.s do you work for Microsoft?
notitallmr: not sure what i said that was techno bable, but her it goes again. ill try to be easier to understand.
ok, mac computers are expensive. for the same price, you can get a pc that blows teh mac at that price out of the water, in all of speed, hard drive space, components (disk drives, usb and firewaire ports, esata ports, which macs do not have), memory, and internal component quality. this is especially true, if you build the machine yourself.
also, teh new macs use intel chips. now personally i would rather have a machine built for the intel chip, then have one that had to be redone so tha tthe intel chip could work for it. lets say you have a lamborghini. it dies. the engine is good though. so you take it out and put it in your new porche. you might be able to get it to work, but it isnt the best option.
the basic difference is as follows:
MAC: much more stable (i.e., programs and PC won’t suddenly crash on you, making you lose data)
PC: about 97% of the world’s software is written for PC, so if you want to use a specialized software (besides for the regular internet, email, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.), you may not be able to find a Mac version of it.
kitzur_dot_net: i have no clue where you get saying macs are more stable. the reason why pc’s arent stable is because the users that use them have no clue what they are doing! mac users tend to know their way around the internet and a computer a bit more. your typical user is buying a pc, going online and messing up their computer. the hardware in a typical pc with the price range of the mac will be 10 times better then the stuff apple is sticking in their computers. statistically, in bench mark tests which is how the industry tests machine, mac do rate high, but never hold the top spot, unless they are hundreds more in price. they are never a best buy for your money! they are truly a total waste of money for a typical user.
i completely disagree with you mariner: Mac is essentially Linux under the hood, and farkert, the reason why Macs were invented (and still are being used) is for the non-techies who want some computing power. So again, the software written for Mac/Linux is much more stable (and therefore won’t cause a crash), since it’s made by developers who concentrate much more on the “toychen” (contents) of the app, rather than Microsoft’s goal of esthetics (more chitzoyniyus than pnimiyus)
Yes, Macs are more costly, and by now XP’s proven itself to be pretty stable (we can’t say that for Vista though) – so therefore there isn’t the urgent mad rush to get a Mac.
I personally use a PC (need it to interact with the software development world and Sforim production biz that I’m in) – but my wife uses a Mac for other professional applications, and she can’t rave enough about how much better it is than her former PC.
The capital marketplace has long declared the PC the victor by virtue of its success versus the Mac in the retail market.
kitzur_dot_net: so big deal mac os is based on linux, it still is not built in its core for teh intel chip. this is a fact. the linux they use is modified for use with their original mac chipset.
as for microsoft being the one to care about the looks over teh power of the software, that is truely teh furthest from the truth. mac has been known to fire engineers because they could not figure out how to make what the art dept at mac drew up, and got steve jobs to go along with. mac places the highest amount of proriety on asthetics.
and what professional applications is your wife using the mac for. adobe’s runs better nowadays on a pc, as does office.
I will start off by answering <b>yoshi</b>: I prefer Macs.
Now I will respond to some of the other replies:
<b>Mariner</b> with every post you make it evident how little you know about computers and that you have never used a Mac. In your first post you write that Mac OS X isn’t written for Intel. Of course it is, if it wasn’t it wouldn’t work! You also talk about price. True, <b>some</b> Macs may be on the pricey side, but you are only comparing hardware. You make no mention of software, OS X’s design is far superior to Windows, and the computers come with a whole bunch of useful applications. Windows gives you Solitaire. In your second post you mention component quality. Macs use the same components as PCs, so you’re wrong there. Also can you explain why there are Microsoft executives who use MacBook Pros (running Windows of course) when they can buy a <b>better</b> computer. (Anyone can run Windows on a Mac using Boot Camp.) In your first response to <b>kitzur_dot_net</b> you write “i have no clue where you get saying macs are more stable.”, well ‘i have no clue where you get saying macs <b>aren’t</b> more stable’, this one is rather well known. Even better is your reason why Macs are more stable “mac users tend to know their way around the internet and a computer a bit more.”, if they know more about computers (like you do) why’d they buy Macs? You also mention that ” your typical user is buying a pc, going online and messing up their computer.”, that’s a great reason to buy a Mac as there are no viruses out there for them. Even according to your reasoning maybe that’s why they are more stable and it has nothing to do with their users. Lastly, you obviously haven’t heard the mockery made out of Microsoft’s latest ad campaign.
<b>kitzur_dot_net</b> (and <b>Mariner</b>), Mac OS X isn’t based on Linux it’s based on <b>UNIX</b>. Also both Apple and Microsoft are concerned with writing good software <b>and</b> aesthetics. Apple just happens to be better at both of them. (Though they are helped by supporting less hardware and by handling backward compatibility differently.)
<b>Doc</b> the “capital marketplace” isn’t why Microsoft is where they are today. This is evidenced by the many antitrust suites filed against them. Also the Mac is gaining market-share pretty quickly and Microsoft is nervous and has launched the above-mentioned ad campaign.
In short, I used to deride Macs too. But Apple won me over with a superior product. This isn’t to say that Macs are perfect, they are far from it (grammar checking would be nice too) but superior they are. This isn’t only my opinion but PC Magazines as well.
mariner, (this is getting fun 🙂 – have you tried Office 2007, or Vista for that matter? Did they add ANYTHING there as far as features, or just LOOKS (ribbons, transparency, etc.)
It’s true that originally Mac had this image that it was superior for graphics apps, and that PC controlled the business world, but all that’s history now.
Correct, Adobe & Office will run better of PC, since they’re made for that. But other multi-platform apps are a different subject altogether.
Think about it, how long did it take MS to come up with their on-steroids ASP.net (to rival PHP)? Have you ever tried (babyish) ASP classic? It’s just running a bunch of VBScripts with some object (and/or database) calls. Nothing to brag about! And IE7 – how long did it take MS to copy Opera’s tabs and page zooming?
The bottom line is that MS w/ Bill Gates at the helm are just a bunch of copy-catters (sorry for my childhood terms, I get it from my kids), and can’t invent anything new on their own (but give them much credit for being excellent in marketing as far as looks goes).
Case in point: MySQL and Oracle vs. SQL Server (time them, see who’s faster); Opera & Firefox vs. IE (time their JavaScript parsing); Lotus and WordPerfect vs. Office (see who crashes more often); MacOS vs. Windows (same as above) – the list goes on and on. Who came first? the non-Microsoft, only to be followed by MS’s copying.
Mac kicks Pc…even though I use a Pc, when I have a chance to use a mac i grab the chance they are much more user freindly, faster and more geshmak!
kitzur_dot_net, ok, now i know you dont know much about computers in their technical terms (not that there is anything wrong about that), you are clearly either a developer or web designer. i am a network engineer, so this stuff is my specialty (as i have no clue what teh whole asp/php and sql stuff you talked about is). office 2007 is a completely different program, from the ground up. yes, they added graphical interfaces that blow the old ones out of the water, but the actual system is very different. for one, it is all xml compliant.
side point, opera stole that from firefox plugins. as for microsoft being “copycaters”, well so is mac. gui was zerox not apple. at least bill gates pays royalties!
as for who crashes more often, worp perfect, after version 12, is garbage compared to office, and it does 1 tenth of the stuff. office blows all other suites like it out of the water.
as for adobe, it is made for macs. the upgrades come out for them, up to cs2, which was simultaneous, first.
the ibm processor, which all pcs are built, is a far superior chipset. both intel and amd, the 2 largest ibm chipset manufacturers, just blew the mac chip out of the water. the mac chip in early 00’s maxed out, the technology met its peak, where the intel chip is still creating breakthroughs in micro computing.
i have been using office 07 for over a year, and it never crashed on me, or any of my clients, at least not any more then any other program. macs have constant problems with their mice (wireless) since syncing them is a pain in the neck. macs use alot more electricity (at a time of high bills, this is a bad thing) then your average pc does. (this according to trade magazine tests i saw about 6 months ago. it was minimal, but still there. they over heat alot. but they are gorgeous to look at. so is a bouquet of flowers, but that doesnt mean i want to store all my valuable info on it.
and dont even get me started on the ipod. sony archos, cowan, iriver all make comparable or better products then the ipod, and they are cheaper. and they dont mess with music format and licenses!
kitzur_dot_net: i want to just say quickly, that i did not mean the fist sentence of my comment in a derogatory sense.
it’s ok mariner, and i never took it that way – i live in EY, where it’s common to poke fun of people, and aderaba, it makes you feel like you’re more appreciated that way… Kol Tuv to you, and a Ksiva v’Chasima Tova and a Gut Gebentsched Yohr !
<b>Mariner</b> I don’t know what happened to my previous post, I wrote about Office 2007 and that the Ribbon interface isn’t just “eye candy”… has been around for years you should have heard of it. Opera happens to be the most innovative browser out there. They had tabs before Firefox even existed. Apple stole the <b>idea</b> of a GUI from Xerox’s PARC, Microsoft stole the “look and feel” of Apple’s implementation. They got sued for it, Apple did not. Regarding Adobe, it’s not only “up to CS2” CS4 was introduced a few days ago. You have me a little confused regarding processors, I think you are confused with “IBM Compatible”. Apple used Power PC processors made by <b>IBM</b>, when those weren’t meeting their needs they switched to the <b>Intel</b> processors that you rave about. It was a great move. Note that the Power PC processor is <b>not</b> a bad processor, it’s used in many different products including Microsoft’s Xbox 360. Microsoft even used Power Mac G5’s in creating it because it used the same processor architecture. One of the problems with Power PC was energy consumption and heat. Macs still do run fairly hot because of their denseness. But, they don’t use more power unless you’re referring to the Mac Pro which is a <b>workstation</b> and doesn’t use any more power that a similarly configured Windows box.
Regarding the iPod, it shines in it’s ease of use. No other media player is as easy to use, from using the actual device to syncing it with a computer and buying content from the iTunes Store. It fits in well with Apple’s overall strategy of making devices for “non-techies”.
Macs are far superior for many reasons. The price argument is false. Would you say a Kia is better to purchase than a BMW since it costs less? A premium product has a premium price. Some people need a computer to do simple tasks, browse the web and balance a spreadsheet. They dont care of the interface, the way the machine looks, or operates, and thats fine.
Some people though want a computer that is a reflection of themselves. They want a computer that looks good, is intuitive and responsive. Look at a dell or hp with its rough edges, unfinished ports and many seams. Then look at a macbook, its flawless design, smooth surfaces, it is almost a work of art. And yes, that IS important in a computer just as many of us want a car look is shiny and new, and would not want to drive around in a “klunker”
As for the intel chip, Max OS X was written for that chip. I have owned a mac for years, and never once has it crashed. Compare that to my pc, that freezes on a daily basis anytime i install something, plug in a peripheral, or run a windows update. If the computer looks good, I also want it to run well. The mac is a pleasure to use. Everything is intuitive. Programs open quickly, features are easy to locate, and its nice to know the operating system and the hardware were made by the same company! The built in webcam in my macbook was made by the same company that wrote the video conferencing software on the computer.
+++++Compare that to the logitech camera you attach to your PC, try to have it communicate with the Microsoft operating system, on a dell USB port, using logitech drivers, and AOL video conferencing software+++
i just bought a macbookpro for college it better be good! im going for Graphic design and i did a lot of research i hope i made the right choice, i got a 200 @7200 RPM with a 512 graphics card. 4 g of ram….2.5 ghz
itsprivate: thats the top of the line, it is blazing fast, you will not be disapointed with how well it handles photoshop, dreamweaver and any other program your school requires you to use
thanks for your reassurance i sure paid a bloody fortune so i hope to be happy with it iyh! i just tracked my order its in transit from shanghai china!!
itsprivate – seems like alot more computing power than you’ll need for writing poems.
omg how do u remember
Macs are generally better for music/video/graphic editing. Most big-time studios use macs. Personally, I prefer PCs because I can get under the hood more, and customize every tiny detail to my liking (and because I’ve always used a PC).
illini, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. You think that PC is more customizable than Mac? Or you just are unfamiliar with Mac? Try getting a windows PC to stop spying on you.
Squeak:
Macs (with OSX) are not meant to be tinkered with as much “under the hood” than Windows PCs. I am also less familiar with Macs, though I have used them a fair amount. My PC doesn’t spy on me, because I know how to configure it.
Additionally, Macs use proprietary hardware that makes it difficult to customize or upgrade without sending it to an [Apple-authorized, read: expensive] shop. I can pull open my PC and completely change the hardware configuration in a matter of 30 minutes.
I guarantee you that if you give me one hour and your computer, I can download a log of every keystroke you have ever entered on your PC. I can recreate every file that you ever downloaded. I can construct a report of every second that you used the computer – when you logged on until when you logged off. Just because you don’t know it exists does not mean that it does not.
Does that shake anyone up a bit? It should, at this time of year.
Squeak:
1) That would require you to physically have my computer, unless you were to try to sneak in a trojan horse, which would not likely be successful. Even if you had my computer physically, I seriously doubt that you could get past the security on my machine.
2) Short of any physical hardware installed, I guarantee that I can detect and disable any keylogger/spying program that you have access to. Just because they are stealth programs does not mean they are invisible. Someone who has above-average computing skills (and I do) can figure that out pretty easily.
yossi: your kia/mercedes moshul is flawed, as i said that eh mac is more expensive when priced against the same thing in terms of specs in a pc. and if you build one yourself, you can get cases that blow the mac case out of the water in “coolness”. also, explain how a computer reflect oneself. yes, if you are one to be told what you can and cannot have, then go ahead buy a mac. i like to do things my way, and have inside my case the specs i want, not what steve jobs wants.
the reason why pcs crash alot, is because software for them is not always written well, as mac controls the software for their computer. see, with the iphone, where they are a little more lenient with their code, the software people create for it, crashes the piece of garbage and deletes data all the time. i have a pc for years, and it has never crashed on me, except once, when i moved my machine, and the video card came out a bit, and the machine froze up. shutdown, popped card into slot, and was on my way. otherwise, my computer is stable as can be. i make sure any and every piece of software going on my machine is safe. alot of people dont, and their machine becomes unstable.
sorry, but you couldnt get into anyones computer and do that. i have 3 programs that would tell me within seconds, not to mention, you need to get through my firewall. and dont think for 2 seconds that a mac is any less vulnerable to a seasoned hacker.
illini, just to let you know, there are two big graphic designer schools that have now switched to pcs. the mac is loosing ground with them, as people coming into the schools primarily know the pc interfaces, and were having trouble switching. not to mention that the c no longer lags behind in rendering of pictures and video, including 3d, of the mac.
Mariner, that’s very interesting. I hadn’t realized that Macs were losing that niche market.
Get a PC.
I don’t know why two people were confused, but I wasn’t referring to hacking. I said that if I had your computer for 1 hour, I could access the spying logs that Microsoft creates of every keystroke and download on your computer. This spying uses system resources (slowing down everything and adding to the likelihood of crashing) and creates an unwanted record. And it is built in to the system that you buy from MS. I know of no such thing on Mac.
i just got my mac before yomtov! its sooooo cool have a lot to figure out and get used to… but im excited about it! any such thing as a silicon case for a macbook pro? i dont see online…. but would love to get such a thing…..
Macs are cool.
Windows is more widely available and/or used.
Macs are powerful.
Windows Vista claims to be powerful.
Macs are easy to use, and have great customer support.
Windows support depends on your manufacturer.
Macs are expensive, but worth it.
Windows PC’s are a dime a dozen.
Any questions? 😉
macs have better functions, better stability (won’t crash or die), and more raw power. however, most programs do only run on windows. this is not a problem, however, as apple released a program sometime last year, which i heard now comes preloaded on every mac, that lets you flawlessly run windows (including vista!) on a mac. now the only thing that the pc’s still got is $$$, and apple’s working on that
mw13: “macs have better functions, better stability (won’t crash or die), and more raw power.”
WRONG!
they do not have better functions. they have the same functions. if anything, the pc does more, as there is a billion if not more times the amount of software written for it out there! wont crash or die, i beg to differ. go down to tekserve and see how many people are fixing their unbreakable and uncrushable macs! its nonsense that they are better machines. the hard drives are the same, mainly hitachi hard drives, which are the same more or less with the hitachis in pc’s, and the other leading manufacturers of hard drives. the basic difference is the actual software, and the way the mother, or main board works. again, the reason pc’s crash is 99.9 percent of the time due to 3rd party software.
I had a PC (a Dell Inspiron 8600, in case anyone’s wondering) for about four years and hardly used it because it was incredibly slow, would freeze without warning, and crashed several times. I had to get the motherboard replaced once and the keyboard replaced twice. It was simpler to just use the desktop computer in the basement most of the time.
Over the summer, I purchased a MacBook Air. Yes, it was expensive, but I view it as a good investment (and it came with a free iPod Touch.) Despite its slimness, it’s very durable, and I haven’t had a single problem with it. Safari is very easy to use, iTunes works like a dream, and with my built-in webcam I can, from Israel, Skype with my family in America.
I knew I needed to replace my laptop and might have just gotten the newest Dell model if it hadn’t been for my six-week internship at Moment Magazine last spring. Thanks to a generous donation, Moment has switched entirely over to Macs, and since my internship involved a lot of computer time, I got to know the operating system quite well. I decided that since I needed a new laptop, I might as well try a Mac.
There’s a world of difference between this computer and my old one (and it’s not just Dell; I’ve used my brother’s Gateway a couple of times and noticed the same things.) My MacBook Air is faster and more powerful, not to mention aesthetically superior and easier to carry around (because it’s so light.) It’s gorgeous, with its rounded edges, little door that pulls down to reveal the ports, and small space for the adapter to magnetically “snug” into the laptop. The backlit keyboard is great for those late nights when my roommates are sleeping and I have to work in the dark. Most of all, I love that I know how to use it. Sometimes when you own something, you don’t *really* “own” it until you figure out how it works and can actually take advantage of its functions. (So it was with me and my iPod Nano; I have no such problems with the iPod Touch.) I’m very much technologically ignorant (although I picked up some useful skills at Moment, such as how to use a scanner) so I was shocked by the ease with which I can operate this laptop and get all my work done without having to consult the manual every five minutes. I’m very satisfied with it; the only drawback is that it doesn’t come with a CD drive. I spent $99 on the external SuperDrive, which plugs into the USB port, but actually I’ve found that I don’t need to use it very often, so the lack of a built-in drive isn’t really a huge issue.
mariner, you’re talking about the software (operating system), where there are obviously more programs for windows, and i’m talking about the hardware (no, not the hard drives – how can you have a better hard drive?!). and the software doesn’t matter, as apple released a program sometime last year, which i heard now comes preloaded on every mac, that lets you flawlessly run windows (including vista!) on a mac (as i said in my last post!!!)
I remember reading somewhere that in the Yeshiva world, Webcams were considered very much a bad thing. Seeing as it’s the only way I can see most of my family (I live and work on several continents right now, and my family is not on any of them), I was going to use one anyway, but I am glad to see that someone else out there is of the frum world, and knows there are great reasons to have one.. Oh, and I have used Macs off and on since 1987 (with some PCs in there when I was broke and a glutten for punishment), and currently 3/5 of my computers are Macs. Most of the “I can build a better box for less” arguments are useless where the Mac is having it’s biggest impact, laptops..
Anotherrandomperson: on behalf of the cr board & the cr gang, we welcome ya to the cr!!! join the fun!!! head to the new members thread, so the rest of thr cr could give ya a proper welcome!!!
You can get a intel coompatable AMD 64 bit PC whidh is much cheaperr than the MAC .
Reb Eliezer, you’re 10 years late and a dollar short.
Myself and my friends who are computer professionals prefer MAC’s.
Neither. ChromeOS with crouton, or Linux for me. Apple products are expensive status symbols for most use cases, and the quality of your Windows experience invariably degrades with time.
Joseph, explain yourself.
what is a computer? I feel like that is even older than my grandmother.
I like a kosher Big Mac better than potato chips, but kosher Big Macs are hard to find in the New York area. There are lots in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
Linux is better as it allows a lot of customization. Moreover, if you learn Linux, then finding a niche job is easier.
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