Lubavitch

ya.like the baruch habba melech hamoshiach signs that should be ripped down by the mainstream anti-meshichists. o wait. there arent any.

2cents, the youtube link put in by the mod shows Rabbi Cunin, a mainstream Lubavitch leader, making the claim in front of an audience, with nobody contradicting him, and no public retraction.

Ain od milvado. Hashem echad. Lo livado ra’ui lehispallel. these are matters of basic emuna.

Dr. Seuss: I would have to think that he misspoke and no one caught it at the moment. I’m sure he said he misspoke to anyone that asked him. He wasn’t making a public speech and there isn’t a need for him to issue a press release saying he misspoke.

Sure, I accidentally say “Jesus runs the world” all the time. Whoops. (disclaimer:not)

This was a PUBLIC speech, and this clip is from the PUBLIC video. And this isn’t some backwater sholiach. This is the head of West Coast Chabad, the head of the Chabad Telethon, and no stranger to public speaking. Rumors of “Elokistim” and “Boreinu”niks abound. Just google the phrases. So when a very public chabad shaliach accidentally affirms the rumors publicly, he better retract them, or have other Lubavitchers retract and say he misspoke. the silence is deafening.

I showed the post to a Lubavitcher, and my friend showed it to two others, and all three defended the video instead of claiming he misspoke. but don’t take my word for it. Show the clip to your local Shliach and ask him about it. Google “Rebbe God” or “elokistim” and you will see that there is strong evidence for this belief being very widespread. Rabbi Cunin just proved how widespread it is.

Hashem runs the world, and Ain Od Milvado. Hashem Echad.

I cannot believe what is going on over here. You people consider yourself Frum Yidden, a bizayon what this is. Yes, there are kooks in all factions of Judaism, but this doesn’t mean they all believe in it. I know many, many Lubavitchers and I know only one who is Yechi. Granted, there is a sect in Milwaukee who say he is G-d…

dr. suess- if i had a massive following that CV”S would say the mra”h was Hashem and i would say it publicly then i would need to retract. so many of them believe it, if he doesnt he should have said so. and its not kooks-its so mainstreamed you woulodnt believe. again, if mainstream doesnt believe the rebbe is moshiach, and it tarnishes the image of their whole chassidus and makes them into a laughingstock wouldnt it make sense to you that they would come out against these people? at least discourage the baruch habba melech hamoshiach signs? but they dont. their silence is a resounding affirmation. they believe it too.

Dr. Seuss, check out the info at identifyingchaba.org and on the wikipedia page about messianic chabad. Then tell me that this was an isolated slip of the tongue.

Moshe Rabbeinu’s grave was hidden so people wouldn’t daven to it. So yes, if someone said Moshe runs the world, it’s avodah zarah. Hashem hu ha’elo-him.

Many chabadskers say tachanun on 3 Tammuz, even though they skip tachanun on the yartzeits of every other rebbe. The “LChaim” newsletter says ‘the Rebbe shlit”a’ 17 years after his passing and has a section called “living with the Rebbe”. He said what he meant and he meant what he said.

There is no way that was a mistake.

Being that they are accused of this all the time, and that this video went viral, they would have certainly put out a retraction.

If Obama once by accident referred to kenya as his birthplace, you better believe the white house spokesman would tell us it was a mistake.

yossi- i dont understand you. clearly the world percieves them to be more than a few wackjobs. i live near a lubavitch yeshiva in yerushalayim and the “bochurim” are consistently seen wearing moshiach pins. shouldnt their rabbeim tell them not to? and why dont you get up and set the record straight? ie- yell that the rebbes not moshiach? if this image is so damaging to the chassidus then why isnt there a large-scale efort to see these groups quashed? the overwhelming silence of the mainstream nonyechiniks seems to indicate there arent any. not one lubob rav ever comes out against them. it makes no sense. so logic says its not a few nuts. what am i missing?

to be clear- this is NOT about sinas chinam. I love all Jews. But ahavas chinam does not mean I throw away my halachic beliefs about Hashem echad, just like my love of my irreligious neighbors doesn’t mean I am not shomer shabbos.

i just went through the whole site identify chabad. truly scary. and i watched the “rebbe runs the world” video. no mistakes. he didnt blak afterward, didnt seem distressed about such an enormous error. theyre coming.

btw, when I was in high school, the most popular bobeh maiseh was that rav Shach used to have a chavrusah with the lubavitcher Rebbe (!)and when the meshichist movement started, Rav Shach told him, “I can’t learn with you anymore, you’re a kofer.”

what a silly world. in order to super-justify a gadol’s opinion, we have to make him seem all knowing

yoiske- i repeat-this isnt a second hand maaseh. i didnt hear it after broken telephone- i heard it from my rebbe . it was told. to him. by R shach. first grade comprehension. i heard it from the baal hamaaseh.

Jothar: if you knew anything about chassidus in general you wouldn’t have said what you did about the living with the rebbe column.

Toi: how many lubavitchers do you know to qualify your statement? The majority of lubavitchers I know are non yechi. The rebbe ZY”A was very against outward fighting and preferred settling things peacefully. What those lubavitchers against the wackjobs do, is to work even harder to show what is a proper lubavitcher. Is it fair that the non wackjobs have to work so hard? No but the rebbe never liked it and were he alive today still wouldn’t like it. Therefore, the lubavitchers continue to follow the rebbe’s will even after death. Actually, yechi started when the rebbe first fell ill so if the rebbe were alive and well today the problem wouldn’t exist.

Itche: yes you have real lubavitch gezhe in the CR though as stated in my first post I do not like flaunting my yichus or anything like it. IF they are questions to benefit the rabim and not just questions to prove which side of an argument that people shouldn’t be a part of is right, then go ahead and ask.

😀 ish zuber 😀

Yoiske, I davened in a chabad-leaning minyan. We skipped tachanun for yartzeits, “Rosh hashana” ie 19 kislev, etc. We did NOT skip it on 3 tammuz.

My brother bought a tape from Crown Heights. Lyrics were things like “3 tammuz didn’t change a thing, the rebbe’s still our leader, our master and our King” and other such things.

A chabadsker who tried being “mekareiv” me told me that Yaakov Avinu Lo Meis and therefore the Rebbe didn’t die either. The chevra kaddisha who took care of him might have something to say about that, but that’s for another time.

I once ended up davening in a chabad shul. They said “yechi” at the end of davening as a chant.

I have a hard time believing that I have the mazel of bumping into all the crazies.

yoiske, what does it mean “against him idealogically”? No such thing. There were maamarim of the Rebbe which made many Litvishe gedolim realize that something was amiss. This isn’t a moyfes. It’s a matter of reading what was written and saying this is shtus or apikorsus. Eg, the teshuva that the rebbe’s atzmius makes it muttar to daven to him directly, etc.

The Rebbe himself used to encourage the view that he was moshiach, as is listed on the websites of all of his enthusiastic supporters (he used to say moshiach “mammash”, the other maaselach, etc.

My questions were about recent Lubavitch history but they might aggravate things. That’s why I asked first.

1- I heard that the friediker rebbe had messianists in his lifetime. What happened to them and is there any hope of the current meshichisten vanishing the same way?

2- What is keeping the normal majority from throwing the tzfatim out of 770? Haven’t they won in both bet din and secular court already?

ItcheSrulik:

“Resident College “Shaigetz”

Mod-42: Sez you. Imagine if somebody said something analogous to Kilobear’s comment about the drug problem in Lakewood. Would it still “have turned out ok so far”? “

I didn’t know there would be a drug problem in such a place, sad to hear:( but then again in a place where the koach of Kedusha is so strong the koach hatumah rises.

To address the point brought up about the rebbe saying about himself that he was moshiach, show me in a sicha or maamer where he says that and not what a mishechist says as they tend to like twisting things to fit to their ideology. That goes for the definitions of non yechiniks too.

Toi: look at the sichos from hey teves and then try saying what you did. Typical? Maybe but all the rebbes in lubavitch vehemently opposed out and out fighting and machlokes. This goes back as far as the first lubavitcher rebbe, the baal hatanya, and I believe it was the Groh ZYA. Chabad.org in my opinion runs with the theory of everybody is a lubavitcher yechinik they just don’t know it yet. It is not run or filtered by the rabonim. Therefore I would not use them as an information source for these things. See? Don’t argue and jump without knowing all areas. You are dead scared what could be legit and who is a bunch of crazies? Even according to the rambam who says that it is possible for moshiach to be someone in the generation who passed, it is a shver tzad and I believe a daas yochid. If you are referring to the yechiniks then I agree they are primarily just a bunch of crazies though there are those that may say yechi but don’t go spouting nonsense all day but instead are actually quite informative in legitimate matters and know what they are talking about.

Itche: 1. It is very possible there where those in his time who felt the frierdikker rebbe was moshiach but it was with a proper and soundly based mind. When he passed, these people realized (albeit with great disappointment (who wouldn’t be?) That he wasn’t moshiach and moved on. 2. Since when was there even a court case? I never heard of it but even say there was (which it is possible knowing some of the er fierce activists), the tzfatim aren’t an organized group that you can say they aren’t allowed in 770 as there is no leader of the tzfatim who tells them what to do (they obviously don’t follow the rabbanim). Either way I don’t see how something like this can be brought to beis din much less a secular court. On what legal grounds are you kicking the tzfatim out (not that I would mind though I would much rather they be willing to actually listen properly to logic instead of blindly following an ideology. Though it isn’t really my place to bash them as I don’t know enough to hold my own against the truly knowledgeable ones and chazal say dah mah shetashuv l’apikores not to actually say it as it is more for your own good to know that you could refute them)

I do not daven at a Chabad house, but I am friendly with the Rabbi and have gone to his house for Shabbos meals, etc.

I do get weekly emails from him and when refereeing to the Rebbe it always states “of Blessed Memory”….

I am comfortable with that.

1 In essence yes but in reality no. If people would seriously put out a concentrated effort it could be taken care of. People would rather just say ach they are crazy and get away with doing nothing. You still will have those people that seriously mentally snapped when the rebbe passed away.

2 Oh that. It wasn’t to kick anyone out, it was to decide who was in charge or rather if there was an official person who had a say over 770. It was renewed and the gaboim/rabonim won. Why they won’t/don’t kick the tzfati out I don’t know. Very likely because they don’t want to cause more problems than they already have.

Gmar Tov everyone!

and from my Lubavitcher son-in-law, too 😉

Dr. Seuss: yes I am a bostoner. So?

My father is lubavitch, his father zy”a was lubavitch, etc all the way back to the times of the alter rebbe. I just still hold quite strongly of chabad even though I did ‘convert’ chassidusin.

Tough request, Yossi. What non-chabadnik is so familiar with all the sichos and the hidden code words of chabad that he can recognize where the Rebbe said he was moshiach, to thus be directly responsible for the thousands of apikorsim and ovdei avodah zarah everyone bumps into?

Fortunately, an answer was literally handed to me Simchas Torah when the Crown Heights folks walked in to join the dancing. It’s a pamphlet called “Yechi hamelech”, available for free by going into 770. The very beginning is a sicha from simchas torah 1985/5746. It’s about how everyone in that generation (of 26 years ago, October 1985/ simchas torah 5786) is born a shaliach (“messenger”, well-known to refer to those who follow the Rebbe’s teachings) of the nasi hador (the prince of the generation, a common phrase used to refer to the rebbe and all his miraculous doings). If the shaliach uses his power, he will turn the nasi hador into moshiach, and the Rambam says Moshiach is flesh-and-blood!

This is basically as strong as he can hint it without saying it in black-and-white.

Of course, the Rebbe was niftar on 3 tammuz 1994. So if the Rebbe was niftar, what happened to his promise that the nosi hador was moshiach and that everyone was born in the generation of moshiach?

the easy answer is that he was wrong. But since someone so great as to be tied into Hashem, that the issur of the Rambam of davening to a human as being a chelek of avoda zara no longer applied (apikorsus known as hiskashrus, check it out on identifying chabad), it can’t be he was wrong. So the Christain theology of today came about.

So yes, yossi, the Rebbe hinted at it enough to make everyone think he was moshiach, and is directly responsible for the ovdei avoda zara of today.

Yossi, I am responding to these 2 statements by you.

#1:

granted, some chassidim are misguided but that is not the fault of lubavitch. people have got to make that distinction and stop blaming the chassidus rather than the person’s choice. as to those groups in lubavitch people have a problem with (elokistim, boreinuniks, real yechiniks) i would like to break it to you that they do NOT represent chabad in any form or fashion so stop saying lubavitchers are crazy etc, lubavithcers aren’t crazy, these people are misguided.

*end rant*

#2:

To address the point brought up about the rebbe saying about himself that he was moshiach, show me in a sicha or maamer where he says that and not what a mishechist says as they tend to like twisting things to fit to their ideology. That goes for the definitions of non yechiniks too.

So I showed a sicha where the Rebbe basically says he’s moshiach, and is thus directly responsible for the crazies.

yossi you still havent answered my taanos.

Toi and jothar: I am sorry that I don’t sit in the cr 24/7 and as such can’t respond immediately to tainos and what not. I will bli neder respond tonight after I finish work.