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im not blaming anyone
i was suggesting the most beneficial course of action for you to take
i am not putting an onus on anyone, you are free to behave as you see fit. i was suggesting the potential onus is actually an opportunity.
im not judging you. you certainly seem to be in the right. i will judge your neighbors, if you wish. from what you said they are wrong and it certainly would be proper for them to stop this behavior immediately. an apology from them would probably be in order also.
but i wasnt talking about them
i was talking to you about you
i think an apology from you is in order too, being a moderater doesnt mean u are always right your response was way over the top
Moderator 80-
I am so amazed at your attitude and haskofos.
I am trying to apply what you said to a very difficult nisayon I have with someone who cheated me out of a lot of money, but I cannot prove it enough in a Bais Din to get it back. I am so so angry at them, but have to try to work on myself to recognize that Hashem sent me this test.
My vote is with Mod 80.
Goq – Mod 80 didn’t claim that he is always right. Nor did he even claim he is correct on this issue. (But others have said he is right.)
Goq, you can’t change other people nor can you control them. What the Mod is telling you is you only have control of yourself in any given situation and you can only change yourself to make any given situation better for yourself since you can’t force someone else to change. So what can YOU do to change your attitude about the situation or change the situation to make it more tolerable for yourself? That doesn’t mean that the other party has no achrius they do, but there is absolutely no control over them and what they do, the only control you have is over what YOU choose to do.
So where does that leave you? Many suggestions were made to you about what YOU can do to make it better for yourself. You can choose to take these suggestions under consideration or you can choose to stay miserable in the situation but know that you are in the right and nothing will change. The CHOICE is yours and in your control. So what will YOU choose to do?
and many agreed with me scroll up
stop paying your rent if you are a tenant. let the landlord take you to court at which time you tell the court that you don’t have
“quiet enjoyment” to which you are entitled.
By withholding the rent, you are forcing landlord (which might be
the upstairs person) to get involved and solve the problem. Otherwise, it will cost financially.
Ask a shaila first.
i think an apology from you is in order too, being a moderater doesnt mean u are always right your response was way over the top
He was trying to help. I think we can all learn from his advice.
Kolel_Wife
I think there’s a concept somewhere in seforim as someone ‘Buying out the Machlokes’, meaning that he’ll pay undue monies, rather than to have machlokes – strife.
Can elaborate later maybe.
“the neighbors are more concerned about their own Shabbos menucha”
This comment (said about those who allow their children to run in the hallway) reminds me of the time on my block a neighbor tried to create a rule for the block, no children outside on shabbos afternoon until 4pm so that people (read he) could sleep. Of course, where do you think he sent his kids at 2pm on shabbos afternoon so he could sleep, to our house!
Some people seem to believe “haolam nivra bishvili, zeh klal gadol batorah”.
Daas what kind of frames do u have on those rose colored glasses?
Positive frames of mind 🙂
sounds more like horse blinders, or going ostrich
Again Goq, you can choose to be “right” but that won’t necessarily make you happy.
i certainly would not take my frustrations out on the kids its not their fault their parents are rude thoughtless and inconsiderate.
“Tell her when you move out that you’ll leave your new address and phone number, so when Elul comes she can contact you and ask you to mochel her.”-that came from a poster
and i want to tell you that i plan on doing that if she comes outside during the move!
That’s one way to guarantee that you won’t end off on good terms.
yogibooboo
dont forget to ask them mechila for turning off their boilers and freezing them. you may not see them again and it would be sad for you to only give din vcheshbon after 120 for that…
yogibooboo-
rumor has it that this is your second apt. in less than a yr. and you bec. of loud and obnoxious neighbors! and aren’t you moving again anyways so what’s the big deal?
yogibooboo: I don’t think you should harbor bad feelings on neighbors of the past. It’s really a pity to end your “relationship” like that (even if they were the rude ones). They will end up being the ones to suffer from their behavior (maybe their future neighbors won’t be too nice to them in response to their behavior). Why not “move on” with life? Let go of the anger.
Yogibooboo- I think by turning their boiler down low you have stooped down to their leven, if not lower than theirs.
If there is a problem send a note (that is borderline nasty) but playing around with their boiler is pure chutzpa!
yogibooboo-
My point it wasn’t the reason you moved the first time bec. they also were loud and obnoxious? Stop blaming the rest of the world for everything and start taking responsibility for your own actions. I’m sure in the new place the ppl. and kids there will also not meet up your expectations of how ppl. and kids should behave!!!!!!
i wish u well in your new locale yogi
Yogi, did you check out the neighbors before taking the new apartment?
I fully understand and agree 100% with yogi
These chutzpahdik neighbours!
Of course you can turn their heat off
And certainly tell them to ask mechila for sure! Don’t feel guilty at all
These critics should read p1 where the poster tries everything with these neighbours including inviting them for Shabbos talking to them etc.
How dare you say that the OP is wrong will pay din vcheshbon!
You guys move into that apartment then let’s see you’re self-
righteous advice!
Sometimes you wind up with people who are just very selfish and don’t care about anyone other than themselves. It is a shame that the landlord doesn’t care either about anything other than collecting his rents. He should have told the tenants that there are rules of common courtesy and there are legal rules that the community have to abide by. He should then have set the rules for ALL his tenants according to city guidelines which are no noise past 10:00 pm and not before 8:00 am or 9:00am depending on the city ordinances. Of course he could adjust it according to what is fair and appropriate to the needs of his tenants. IF he doesn’t wake up, he will either have to get rid of the upstairs tenant of deal with an empty downstairs apartment.
There are always going to be spoiled and selfish people who thing “haolam nivrah RAK bishvili”. The world was created just for me and not give a hoot about anyone else. That is a true shame, but Hashem usually opens their eyes sooner or later with a nisayon of their own which they don’t usually understand at first.
If all these helpful tips that everyone offered dont work.Just wear earplugs and keep a fan on.This way you can drown out the noise..good luck and im sorry that you are suffering..No point of fighting with them they will just get more upset and try to make noise on purpose.
There is no excuse for frum people to bother neighbours enough until they are actually forced to move out of their home!
Unthinkable!
I personally would make some noise of my own at 3 in the morning outside their house daily till they understood! They’re getting off lightly with no heating for a day
I personally would make some noise of my own at 3 in the morning outside their house daily till they understood! They’re getting off lightly with no heating for a day “
Except – – YOU would be the one disturbing OTHER neighbors!
There is no excuse for frum people to bother neighbours enough until they are actually forced to move out of their home!
Unthinkable!
I personally would make some noise of my own at 3 in the morning outside their house daily till they understood! They’re getting off lightly with no heating for a day
Ever hear of Lo Sikom?
you found an apartment and moved in one day?! wow!!
Meshaneh makom meshaneh mazal!
I only read the first line and a half.
Lo sikom?
I’d be morah heter that I’m not doing it to make them suffer but just to understand what it’s like so they would stop
I’d be morah heter that I’m not doing it to make them suffer but just to understand what it’s like so they would stop
You could also be morah heter that you’re just letting the other person know how it feels not to be lent a farming implement which you need.
Reading these posts, it seems unclear what exactly the neighbor did to upset the downstairs people. A treadmill once late at night and once to what seemed was early morning? Other than that, it doesn’t seem to indicate “loud and obnoxious neighbors” as this thread is called. Can you clarify?
There is never an excuse to do anything to “teach” ppl. that you mean bussiness! That is not the proper way for a jew to act. Go to a Rav if you need to. But do whatever it takes to keep shalom! Turning the boiler down is not only against the Torah, it is very babyish! You won’t get far in life acting this way!
That is the worst thing ever. Some people just don’t know how to shut up. I also hate noisy nieghbors. Like don’t you people hate em too? They all up in ya grill, eating all ya B.B.Q chick’n
For anyone who has not suffered under these conditions it is not fair to make fun or comment. Please don’t judge until you truly understand what it is like. People who don’t care about their neighbors and make noise all hours of the day or night are not only hurtful because of the noise but are doubly hurtful because they are in your face not caring about you. That is the hardest pill to swallow, right up in your face “i don’t give a hoot about you or your comfort!!!!”.
@ Goq and the rest who feel that others are in the “wrong.”
Without putting in an opinion about this issue, here’s something to think about:
A smart person I know used to say, “You may be right, but are you good?” RIGHT is not always what we are trying to be. Not to say that issues do not have to be worked out–just what your attitude about the issues should be. Remember when it comes down to it every experience comes from H’. The person(people) is just a shluach.
yogi,
“whatever” has raised an interesting point, reading back at your posts you never really post what this “loud and noisy”ness was. can you clarify? was it a party? loud music?
also if it wasn’t just about the noise what was it about?
good luck in your new home!
Aries: you are 100% right. Ppl who don’t know can’t judge and can’t say anything.
We can objectively point out which behavior in response might be wrong, even if we can’t feel how much you’ve suffered.
I lived through the opposite situation; our downstairs neighbors were elderly people, and the man (I think a holocaust survivor) would fly into a rage and angrily bang on his ceiling (our floor) every time the kids made the slightest noise. And this was after we installed padded carpet at out own volition and expense!
Hatzlocha in your new place.
Yogibooboo: I think I might know who you are taling about. Forget the landlord. She won’t do anything. I suggest hiring a L&T lawyer and going about your business in a legal way. Good luck!!
Aries2756: you are correct, especially when the noisemakers who refuse to cooperate are Frum Jews, which also causes a Chillul Hashem.
When I write “noisemakers,” I mean people who make unreasonable noise, and also at unreasonable hours.
Yogibooboo: Bracha and Hatzlacha to you and your family in your new home!
Wow. How sad for everyone involved.
yogibooboo, it is impossible for me or anyone else in this thread to know all the details of your situation. From your descriptions of the specific noise problems you experienced, however, it seems to me that a big contributer to the noise was flimsy construction. I’ve lived in downstairs apartments before and have never heard the upstairs neighbors’ washing machines. If I heard a washing machine like that, I would feel upset not at the neighbors, but at the cheap construction. I wonder if your upstairs neighbors felt that they were not making unreasonable amounts of noise, when in truth the flimsy floors were allowing all of the sound to flow down. Usually when I think of noise problems (which I have experienced), I think of loud music, parties, shouting, playing ball inside, etc. B”H you found a new apartment and hopefully don’t have to deal with the noise anymore.
The Goq, I don’t think that Mod80 was blaming anyone. He was describing in a beautiful way what is commonly called “taking the high road.” Valuing peace between Jews over (even justified) victory. Not out of a holier-than-thou attitude, but out of fear of the consequences of Jews fighting with each other.
Yogibooboo-
It won’t be your last. Something here will end up bothering you too. Can’t change someone’s nature! I know, I’m mean but the truth hurts!!!!!!
When my first child was born I lived in the ground floor apartment and my landlord lived upstairs with already 5-7 kids. They did not give a hoot about the tenants. They made noise whenever. They did not inform us when a new baby arrived. I literally got up every time her baby cried because I didn’t know she delivered and thought it was my baby crying. At any rate, one day I was giving my baby a bath and I hear banging and banging upstairs and the lighting fixtures falls off in the bathroom barely missing myself and my baby. They had started remodeling upstairs and didn’t bother to tell us or give us any warning. It was not enough that the kids bounced the balls on our heads or played jumprope upstairs, they did construction on top of us without giving us the opportunity to move out for a month without paying rent. It was a disaster for us. More than that it was a nightmare.
I fully understand what Yogi feels.
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