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i am now switching schools. In the school that i was just in i was able to daven as long as i wanted as i had permission. However, i am now going to high school where i don’t have this opportunity to daven as long as i want. I would like to daven my normal 1 hour shemoneh esrei which helps me attain the top most kavannah that i feel i need and now that i cant i dont know what to do in order to keep my davening like it is now.
any suggestions?
normal 1 hour shemoneh esrei
That term is an oxymoron. Shmoneh Esrei should not take you an hour.
If you really need that much time to prepare for davening to attain the proper level of kavannah, get to school an hour earlier and prepare then.
The Wolf
MY normal 1 hour shemoneh esrei is not an oxymoron.
Shmoneh Esrei should not take you an hour.
i certainly would not say: “it should take you an hour.”
i also certainly would not say: “it should not take you an hour.”
if you never davened a VERY long Shemone Esrei you have no idea what the poster is talking about
if you never davened a VERY long Shemone Esrei you have no idea what the poster is talking about
I have, on occasion, davened a very long Shmoneh Esrei. The OP, OTOH, makes it sound like that’s the everyday norm for her. That’s quite different. It should NOT take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei every day and the school certainly has no requirement to accommodate her unusual davening habit.
The Wolf
OP, while being able to develop the kind of kavana and feeling needed to daven a 1 hour shemona esrei is commendable, in life we do not have the luxury of devoting ourselves so completely to a single focus. One of the greatest challenges in life is learning how to balance our many competing obligations, to fulfill each one of them to the best of our ability, without neglecting others. We need to work and support our families; we need to learn; we need to help our spouses; we need to care for our children; we need to do chessed in our communities; we need to look after our immediate families; we need to daven with kavana. The list is endless, and each obligation pulls us in different directions. We can’t to all of them all the time, and we can’t focus too strongly on any one of them to the detriment of others. A one hour shemona esrei is praiseworthy, if that sort of teffilah is your niche, but you can’t use it as an excuse to not do other things required of you – whether at home, work, or school.
Developing a proper balance is one of our hardest tasks in life; we never really succeed, but we have to try.
wow! kudos to you sb2! i wish shmonah esrei would take me so long! may all of your tfillos be answered bkarov, and may your special relationship with Hashem take you very far in life! you are such an inspiration!
again i disagree that: it should not take an hour to daven S’E, even 3 times a day on a regular basis. it depends on the person and their madreiga. i agree it is highly unusual. i agree the school should not be REQUIRED to accomodate this.
sarah
do not let the negative posts here discourage you.
this is a wonderful thing. you should continue to work on it. i wish you much help from Hashem.
can you think of a way that you would be able to fit it into the new schools schedule, and then talk to the head of the school about it?
i echo the sentiments of yummy cupcake.
Additionally i tried to come to school earlier but then you have everyone coming in after i have started and that creates a distraction that doesnt help either
If people moving around and talking disturb you, how did you handle it when everyone else had finished davening and you were still davening SE?
The Wolf
sarahbarah2
Why would switching to a different school solve your problem?? You appear to be an anomaly, and I doubt there is a school out there that can accomodate you, other than maybe a homeschool, or your own school. I assume that you, as a young bas yisrael, don’t need to daven with a minyan. Therefore, you should wake up at 7 A.M. and daven at home for as long as you want.
Disclaimer: I personally agree with Wolf and don’t see anything ‘wrong’ with davening for an hour; on the contrary maybe it’s a very good thing. However, you can’t be the iconoclast in this situation. (p.s. I hope I used iconoclast correctly)
do not let the negative posts here discourage you.
I’m not trying to be negative. I’m trying to understand why it takes someone an hour to daven SE on a regular basis. You may disagree with me, but I do not think that a longer davening necessarily equals a better one.
If the OP can find a way to achieve a meaningful davening while keeping it to a reasonable time frame, she will not only be better off for it, but it will also cause her less problems at her new school.
But I really appreciate the vote of confidence on my intentions.
The Wolf
FD
you misunderstood her
she is not switching schools to solve the problem
she was originally in a school where there was no problem
now that she is in a new school, this problem has arisen
It should NOT take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei every day
how in the world did i ever interpret that as negative?
FD
you misunderstood her
she is not switching schools to solve the problem
Mod-80 how would my answer change if I understood her in the correct vein?
im taking a personal and biased interest in this thread.
please try and help her or stay out of it
thank you
“However, i am now going to high school”
I’m not sure if this means that you just finished elementary school, but if it does, I’m sure you discussed it with the school principal and your teachers (you didnt just skip class, did you?). Why cant you do the same thing with the high school teachers/principal?
If I am not mistaken, I saw recently that R’ Chaim Kanievsky paskened that if somebody is davening what would be considered an unreasonably long Shemoneh Esrei, that you are M’ikar hadin allowed to walk in front of him/her even within 4 amos if necessary. When asked what is considered unreasonably long, he responded ‘anything more than the time required to be mechaven to the Pirush Hamilos.
please try and help her or stay out of it
I *am* trying to help.
Yes, I know some might say that any suggestion that she find a way to shorten her davening is apikorsus or the like. I don’t believe so. I think she can find a way to make her davening meaningful and *still* be within a reasonable time frame.
But what the heck. We all know that modus operendi around here has always been to tear people down rather than help them, right? So certainly I *must* have been trying to be negative and harmful to her.
The Wolf
Have the principal of your old school speak to the principal of the new school. Perhaps (I am not inside the head of the principal), because he/she doesnt really know you, he doesnt realize or understand how important it is to you. Perhaps your old principal or teachers who know you can help him understand.
youve got a serious problem Sarah. if you cant find a solution you will have to do the best you can. G-d willing Hashem will help. if you dont seem to be able to solve the problem it will give you another opportunity to cry to and beg of Hashem.
Hashem will be with you in any case.
Do you really keep Kavana for an hour? I never heard of that! Just try to arrange for your concentration to be on how you are talking to Hashem more than how badly you need the goodies. The Chassidim Harishonim spent an hour before each Davening in order to attain that clarity and vividness of how they are standing in front of Hashem.
HaLevi, i am only talking about myself so that you will not misunderstand her.
i have never said a S’E for an hour, but i have on many occasions said it for about 25-35 minutes. its not so much about “getting goodies” (in my case). its more about feeling the presence of Hashem, feeling gratitude, feeling love, and thinking about each word with a depth, closing out everything else except the nearness to Hashem.
its what Tefillah should be. i cant always do it. it is work. hard work for me. it is Avodah. it is wonderful
my s.e is not mainly spent on my needs and is also spent for thanking Hashem for all i have and what He does for me
That is wonderful. However, it can also be done *outside* the context of SE. How about spending 30 to 60 minutes *before* davening (or at some other time) contemplating how wonderful He is to you and how thankful you are to Him?
The Wolf
“We need to work and support our families; we need to learn; we need to help our spouses; we need to care for our children; we need to do chessed in our communities; we need to look after our immediate families; we need to daven with kavana. The list is endless, and each obligation pulls us in different directions. We can’t to all of them all the time, and we can’t focus too strongly on any one of them to the detriment of others. A one hour shemona esrei is praiseworthy, if that sort of teffilah is your niche, but you can’t use it as an excuse to not do other things required of you – whether at home, work, or school.”
RSRH, you seem to be forgetting the Gemara in brachos which states that the chassidim harishonim would spend an hour davening as well as an hour before and after preparing to talk to G-d. The gemara asks that if they spent nine hours a day on davening, how did they have time to learn and work? The Gemara answers that since they devoted nine fours to davening, they had special siyata dishmaya that in the few hours remaining they were able to accomplish everything.
i feel it is proper to insert those feelings in then.
It is. But that doesn’t mean that you have to spend all that time doing so while you’re saying Modim. You can spend quality time thanking Him beforehand and then refer to that in thought while reciting Modim during davening.
The Wolf
Even if i spend time beforehand that doesnt exactly help my situation
Yes, it does, as if you give thanks to HKBH for all He does for you before davening, you can just mentally refer back to it during davening.
The Wolf
Do you do this three times a day? If not, perhaps you can switch your special Shmone Esrei to Maariv.
sarahbarah2:
It is truly wonderful that you put so much time and effort into your davening. Halevi more people should put that much time and effort into their davening.
Wolf:
“It should NOT take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei every day”
Why not? What is wrong with spending an hour a day (or 6 hours a day, for that matter) davening?
“and the school certainly has no requirement to accommodate her unusual davening habit.”
Umm… religious rights?
“I think she can find a way to make her davening meaningful and *still* be within a reasonable time frame.”
Just as we shouldn’t judge somebody with a 90 second SE, we shouldn’t judge somebody with a 90 minute SE. If sarahbarah2 feels that an hour-long SE is what she needs, kol hakavod. It’s not like she’s saying everybody must daven SE for an hour – only that she wants to. What do you have against that?
“But what the heck. We all know that modus operendi around here has always been to tear people down rather than help them, right? So certainly I *must* have been trying to be negative and harmful to her.”
Umm… for a rant against judging people’s motives negatively, you seem to be judging people’s motives rather negatively….
“That (adding extra stuff into SE) is wonderful. However, it can also be done *outside* the context of SE.”
Yes, it can be done out of SE… but why should it be?
RSRH:
“we can’t focus too strongly on any one of them to the detriment of others.”
I disagree. I think that davening certainly should be focused on, even if it must come at the “detriment of other” things. Our davening is the core of our personal relationship with Hashem, which is the point of our existence.
Mod. 80:
“i have never said a S’E for an hour, but i have on many occasions said it for about 25-35 minutes… its what Tefillah should be. i cant always do it. it is work. hard work for me. it is Avodah. it is wonderful “
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
apushatayid:
“Have the principal of your old school speak to the principal of the new school.”
Good idea.
“they had special siyata dishmaya that in the few hours remaining”
In the time of Rebbe, such “chassidim harishonim” no longer existed. That is why he called them “harishonim” which means from an earlier era.
Why?
Perhaps by his era there were no longer such spiritually inclined people; or there still were, but the special siyata dishmaya (Heavenly assistance) that allowed them to pray 9 hours a day was withdrawn???
Did such “chassidim harishonim” re-appear in later generations?
Sarah, Kol Hakavod to you, but why can’t you daven at home, before school?
Why not? What is wrong with spending an hour a day (or 6 hours a day, for that matter) davening?
Because she has a schedule to keep that prevents her from doing so.
Umm… religious rights?
A private school is not under any obligation to make religious accommodations. Or do you think that her yeshiva should allow her to start her day at 1PM if she wants to spend six hours davening?
Yes, it can be done out of SE… but why should it be?
Because it’s interfering with her school schedule.
The Wolf
“Perhaps by his era there were no longer such spiritually inclined people; or there still were, but the special siyata dishmaya (Heavenly assistance) that allowed them to pray 9 hours a day was withdrawn???”
They didn’t spend nine hours on davening because they had siyata dishmaya. They got the siyata dishmaya because they spent nine hours on davening. The reason why the chassidim harishonim stopped existing is not because the siyata dishmaya was removed, but rather because people stopped spending so much time on davening. therefore, it stands to reason that even nowadays, if one spent extra time on davening then they would in turn recieve extra siyata dishmaya throughout the rest of the day.
Wolf:
It appears that I may have misread your position. I thought that you were opposed to an hour-long SE in principle (“It should NOT take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei every day”, period); but now you seem to be saying the problem is only that such a long SE will interfere with classes. That is a different argument than the one I thought was taking place.
However, I still disagree with you. The mornings in our school system are spent in Avodas Hakodesh, and there is little Avodas Hakodesh a person (particularly a girl who is not mechuyav in talmud Torah) can be doing that is as productive as davening.
“Or do you think that her yeshiva should allow her to start her day at 1PM if she wants to spend six hours davening?”
why not?
How much kavana does the 34 minute minyan have?
It appears that I may have misread your position. I thought that you were opposed to an hour-long SE in principle (“It should NOT take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei every day”, period); but now you seem to be saying the problem is only that such a long SE will interfere with classes. That is a different argument than the one I thought was taking place.
I’m not opposed to it in principle. However, it must be acknowledged that it *is* unusual to take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei and, like anything else that is unusual, if it intereferes with normal routine activities (such as going to school), then it *does* become a problem.
However, I still disagree with you. The mornings in our school system are spent in Avodas Hakodesh, and there is little Avodas Hakodesh a person (particularly a girl who is not mechuyav in talmud Torah) can be doing that is as productive as davening.
I disagree. A school has a program and a cirriculum. A school cannot make customized schedules for every girl based on their own peculiarities. They have to schedule classes at a time that’s convenient for them and they have to have all the girls conform to that schedule. You cannot run a school if one girl feels that her davening will allow her to skip the first period or two and another girl feels that her chesed mission is more important than class and a third girl feels that she’d be more spiritually accomplished by learning sefer X when the class is learning sefer Y. That’s not a school — that’s anarchy.
The Wolf
why not?
See my post right before this one.
The Wolf
“See my post right before this one.”
See my previous two posts (excluding the one where I asked you why not) where I addressed your claim.
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