Lo sichanem

An atheist is not an idol worshipper.

The consequences laid out in the Torah are in response to actual sins of the nations. Not ideology.

I’ll take an atheist helping his neighbor to a “frum” person who preaches hating everyone. Avraham preferred mehutonim frmo his family who were avdei A’Z because they had proper middos, the rest can be changed, but not that.

Avira, you are arguing, I think, with R Hirsh, R Lopian and probably others that explain this way.
I am not saying this is an only way, but something to think about.
Maybe you understand differently what “middos” are.

I included the notional “atheist” here, whom I presume to be a proster non-religious Yid, closer to a classic “am haaretz”. As an example from another thread, I’ve seen a number of Israeli and Russian Yidden who did not have much Jewish background, but had good general attitudes, sending their kids to Jewish schools, whether Chabad/MO/Litvishe and blending into communities in several years, starting from zero.

Maybe you suggested a real apikoires, a head of a Marxist club, who also takes care of his comrades. That would be different.

CS, Christians are akum, worshipping avoda zora. It says so specifically in Rambam.

Ujm that’s questionable (for goyim) as many hold they’re allowed to believe in shituf (which c would fall under)

CS, and, as i mentioned, rambam specifically writes that Christianity, whether you call it shituf or not, is avoda zora.

CS, again, Rambam very clearly and explicitly declares Christianity to be avoda zora for goyim.

The Longest Pesach: R’ Yechezkel Landau was walking one day, when he noticed a nochri boy sitting and crying. He inquired, and the boy replied that every day he sells a basket of his uncle, the baker, ‘s bread but today it fell and he can’t sell it and his uncle will beat him mercilessly. R’ Landau gave him the amount of money he needed.
Years later, one Pesach, the boy–now a man–knocks on his door, and informs him that his uncle is plotting to kill all the Jews in the city. After Pesach every year, they all come to buy bread from him. He would poison the bread this year. R’ Landau must foil the plot, but without the uncle discovering the nephew gave him away.
On Acharon Shel Pesach, R’ Landau made an announcement in shul that there was a mistake in the calendar and that it was really the 7th day of Pesach. That night, or next morning, when everyone was observing Acharon Shel Pesach, he contacted the chief of police, who fed the bread to a dog, and found it to be poisoned. The baker was arrested, and R’ Landau announced that the calendars were right after all.

1. Why was he not oveir lo sichaneim?
2. What heter was there to extend Pesach and cause all those brachos levatalos?
3.Even if there is a heter, would it have been so hard to concoct a different story, maybe that all the flour in the country was found to be owned by a Jewish heretic (and came in contact with water), and hence no one may eat it?

I find it funny when people quote sources selectively. Rambam thinks this of Xians (while living among Muslims), while others said something else. Why not lists those who are on both sides, and then explain why your conclusion is the majority? (I know I sometimes quote Rambam only, but this is just because I don’t know much and also respect Rambam’s approach – and Rambam wrote short books for people like me).

Also, on this issue – there are different versions. Rambam writes about Catholics. There are Orthodox who simply follow Russian tzar or seretary general, there are various Protestants who believe either in more abstract things or in nothing at all. There are non-Jews who classify themselves as Reform Jews – what is their status?

Dear Avira,

אמר נבל…

I very much agree.

A vain person is convinced that there is no power that holds us accountable.

Dear Avira,

I don’t know why you brought up atheism. It is a bittul aseh. (Or two.) No malkos. No kores. Have you lost your mind?

Dear Avira,

In light of the Chazzon Ish, what are your feelings when you daven?

Dear Avira,

I’m still waiting on your historical evidence.

I suspect your taking someone else’s perspective as history.

Dear Avira,

No. Chazal understood TaNaCh, that the Torah was just nearly forgotten. As in completely lost. I don’t know how well you understand Chazal. You seem to be more familiar with the low level hashkafists of the last hundred years than any of the Great Gaonim.

Dear Avira,

The concept under discussion (Pen Yeish Bachem…) is about a lax involvement in Torah. Not ideological or theological speculation. Just sit and learn. I don’t get what your trying to sell.

Dear Avira,

So in your opinion, what is the dividing line between an atheist who has no olam habah and one who keeps the mitzvah of believing in Hashem?

Dear Avira,

For you it would be enough to stop by Rav Moshe and Rav Aharon. Their battle on deyos is almost the reverse of yours.

Dear Avira,

Maybe they did treat some or all of them like tinokos shenishbu. I don’t think they were tinokos shenishbu at all. But when the Ramban says that most of the people forgot everything, he was saying what he knew to be true.

And I don’t know where to find about Bayis rishon in that book. As far as I know Josephus skips the malchai yisroel there. Try Antiquities. But if that’s all you have, see his descreption of the Jews in the Diaspora.