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Correction: Doctors are given on average 40 hours of instruction in medical school. 40 Hours out of four years !!!!
stam: You found the cure for cancer. Why aren’t you a billionaire?
Better yet, I have two options for you. You’re either a liar by claiming that diet can cure cancer or you’re the biggest Shev V’al Ta’aseh murderer in human history for not sharing this information with the world.
Stam
1. Yes.
Now your turn did you read any of the studies?
I am laways open too learning. and unlike you freely admit that given evidence to the contrary I will change myview.
“They obviously did not see the video either or the thousands that follow her protocol with astounding success (they are in the middle of proving her theories in laboratory,”
There is no need for a laboratory publish it as an observational study.
If and this is the big one… if true.
2. What camopaing the hea dof the FDA isnt elected? The governement loses money on vaccines.
Why doesnt the governement push smoking. Big tobacco in its heyday was mcuh bigger than pharm today. Youd think the government would convince us that smoking saves lives, or at the very least be mum on the subject.
3. Ha ha ha this one is too good. “Think for a second. Mercury is the most toxic substance on earth ” or “mercury was replaced by aluminum which is more dangerous.” You need to brush up on your toxins. At any rate do you see how you keep moving the goal posts. First mercury is the most dangerous, it is removed then aluminum is worse.
4. Any in particular you reccomend? Ive read (ok skimmed) dissolving illusions, it was quite funny. Any others you recommend?
5. I absolutly read every word. You freely admit that your view is based on thought. I prefer fact and empirical data
6. So no.
7. It is not that we both agree. The “medical establishment” agrees in direct contradiction to your numerous misstatments that the medical establishment doesnt address diet/exercise. I beleive you have made that false claim in EVERY post youve written on this thread. IT simply is not true. (like most of your assertions)
Looking for all diseases is statisticly impossible (forget financially). So lets focus on one. Autism has created the biggest stir so that has been studied and studied.
“but the facts that i see and not the ones manufactured by people that profit trillions of dollars off those facts, or the people who profit politically from those facts (the govt.)”
Sorry you dont get to pick your facts. And as explained above the governement loses money on vaccines.
“I take offense that you say that my mind is made up “
Dont take offense YOU said that “What can i answer you when there are literally thousands of parents who saw the transformation of their children overnight ? A coincidence? A million studies would not convince me” here:http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/letter-from-rabbonim-that-schools-must-accept-non-vaccinated-children/page/2#post-580827
“Who is the dishonest one here????”
YOU!!
Unless there are two posters posting under your name one of whom beleives mercury is the most dangerous substance, and that you would change your mind given an adequate study and that doctors sometimes discuss diet/excercise
vs the other guy who beleives aluminum is the most dangerous, would never change hi mind and Doctors get blank looks when diet/excercise come up
Yes all six of those contradictory statements where made on this thread under your screen name.
If it is actually two different people or one person in different states of cellular health my sincerest apologies. But if you keep changing your mind as the conversation goes along, that is in fact dishonest.
I’d like to do a vague paraphrase of South Park. Excuse me if offensive. Google 9/11 opinion polls. You’ll see that less than half the people in 2008 believed Al-Qaida were behind the attacks. What does this prove? Just like the thread here, it proves that there is no shortage of idiots in the world.
1. I did not read the studies. You told me first on funded by CDC which i do not accept. I asked for next study and the one funded and you did not reply. Again, i am not equipped to know who funded and how it was done and govt. and big pharm are suspect in my eyes. Sorry. Just my opinion and obviously not yours. Dr. Wahls did publish her book called The Wahls Protocol and she says that so far they are very excited with results. If it means anything to you, she use to have a blog and scores of MS patients related how they could do things now they werent able to do in years.
2. I have read the ex-ceo of Big Pharm. are heads of the FDA. Do i have to explain the significance of that?
3. From article I quoted in mercola.com: Aluminum is not only toxic in and of itself, but it also impairs your body’s ability to excrete mercury, and it impairs glutathione synthesis. As a consequence, aluminum will make whatever amount of mercury you have in your system — from eating seafood, dental fillings, vaccines, etc. — even more toxic. The problem, of course, is that U.S. regulators have once again thrown the precautionary principle to the wind, and have allowed this known poison to be injected into us and our children without proper safety and toxicity testing.
4. If it aint food don’t eat it by Kelly Hayford is a good start.
5. ok. good for you.
6. ???
7. see my post to Syag
8. You still don’t understand! Even if govt. loses money, the individual congressman gains from political donations and bribes! WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND !!!!!
I believe the rest of your comments were discussed above or my answer to Syag.
Sam 2 – Read about The Gerson Therapy which has been around for 70 years as one example….
dont use the posts to me as a reference for anything, they are very sad to read as they are evidence that you have committed yourself to something that you cannot fully defend and your arguments are not holding water to even the unlearned, like me.
Oh, and about the doctor/diet etc issue, I learned one semester of neurological disorders in college but have been treating those patients for two decades. Wanna know why? Because I learned more about it out of college when I found it to be relevant to my field.
There are many, many, many doctors out there who give diet and exercise a front row seat. You don’t want to know that. In fact you are so set on disbelieving it that you are even willing to imply to the other posters that OUR personal experiences never really happened. I don’t know what happened in your history to make you NEED this to work, but you may want to explore that a bit further.
Syag,
I cannot defend 100% NOT to give vaccines. You must have not read earlier where i said i WOULD vaccinate my own kids at this point but just not on same schedule. I am here just to give another perspective and my reservations. I’m sorry if you missed that.
If you expanded your education, that’s great. But I don’t think the average Doctor does. This was not my experience with my doctors or my parents. They simply are not equipped like a nutritionist can. I wrote you several examples of people i know first hand who were cured by nutritionists when the doctors only had medicine to offer. (I can provide more stories if you wish.)
My history is quite simple. I was the biggest anti-natural health person in the world and pro-doctor (with many of my immediate family members – including spouse – as doctors or in the medical field and I wanted to become one myself many years ago as a teenager….)….until i started seriously researching it myself. I was honest enough to admit that my understanding of medicine was deeply flawed and about 4 years ago I drastically made an about face. Since then, i do not have to sleep anymore during the day (for 30 years i could not function without atleast one hour a day). I am physically in better shape than i was 20 years ago and my doctor told me if i would study nutrition professionally, he would send me all his patients! Getting back to vaccines, it is a very complicated issue for me and i am the first to admit that i am confused. Please see original post on this thread. I’m sorry if you missed all of that…..Go to amazon and check out the dozens of books on subject with some of the remarks. It is truly complicated….
I was here from the start and had read it all. Yes, you gave me lots of examples where people got cured but I wasn’t the one with a question. You said flat out several times that doctors give a blank stare and are ignorant about diet and exercise. You said doctors don’t tell patients to treat their illnesses with diet. When I told you that you are wrong, many doctors do, your answer was a list of doctors who don’t.
I’ll say it again – many many many doctors use diet and exercise as a first step in treating some illnesses. You were exposed to some very ignorant professionals. Other posters have even agreed.
Are you able to accept that possibility?
It would take a person hours to sit down and explain to them what to eat and how to eat which doctors can’t do even if they wanted to – unless your understanding of nutrition is simply cut down on salt for high blood pressure, don’t eat eggs if you have cholesterol etc…There is so much more to nutrition. When a young man came to me to help him with his headaches, doctors told him avoid chocolate MSG etc…. which did nothing for him. I explained to him how to cut ALL CHEMICALS in his diet especially sugar and taught him the difference between different foods and how to eat whole foods versus processed etc. etc…and guess what? He is a new man. When good friend had rash all over body, doctors prescribed cream after cream. Nobody mentioned diet. He cleaned up his diet and guess what? His rashes disappeared after close to a decade ! Doctors are not trained in nutrition (40 hours! That’s it!!!) and for good reason. Google who supports medical schools…..
Stam
1. You should, you caim to want to be educated on the subject.
Mumps, Measles, and Rubella Vaccine and the Incidence of Autism Recorded by General Practitioners: A Time Trend Analysis
Kaye JA, et al., British Medical Journal. 2001; 322:460-63
was independently funded by the investigators.
I dont mean publish her anecdotes stan and jan berenstein published a series of books about talking bears. I mean data how many people were involved what treatment did they recieve? How was response measured? By whom? were they blinded? etc
2. NO but you do have to explain why you beleive every silly thing you read. The head of the FDA is Michael R. Taylor. He never worked for big pharm
3.
4. Thanks will bli neder get to it.
5. iyh by you. Fact (even ones you dont like) should trump opinion
6. Tay sachs (or any enzyme defficncy) cant be treated by diet nor can any anatomic abnormality that requires surgery. DO you beleive heart attacks can be treated (not prevented) by diet?
7. Simple question because youve said different things:
Do doctors sometimes reccomend diet as therapy for certain ailments?
8. What? Congressmen have nothing to do with the FDA (or CDC), do you not know about the division of powers the two arent related at all?
“WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND !!!!!”
I dont understand how a person can have such strong opinions without knowing anything about the subject at hand. You dont know how studies are done, you didnt know studies existed, you dont trust a governement that you have no clue how it functions and you believe all sorts of junk you read online.
“I believe the rest of your comments were discussed above or my answer to Syag.”
I cant find where.
But maybe you can clarify:
Would you change your mind if faced with evidence that opposed your belief?
And your Friend Gerson, and Whal, mercola etc…
They arent making money of their quackery?
my question was “Are you able to accept that possibility? “
I guess your answer is no.
every time you write this “(40 hours! That’s it!!!)” it indicates you really are not hearing as much as just sharing.
Ubiquinten,
2. You must be kidding! Did a search on Michael Taylor who is ex- ceo of Monsanto the biggest pesticide chemical company in the world who rakes in billions and pays off congress to ok their poison. Research the DARK act just past in congress which denies our right to know if GMO is in food …..you are really making this hakafa a breeze. I’m literally laughing….
6. Depends what type of heart disease. Blockage? 100%. Faulty valves (brought upon by poor nutrition) No. Physical abnormalities: No.
7. I have been consistent in my comments about docs and diets (I refer you to my comments to Syag)
8. From Wiki: The Commissioner of Food and Drugs is the head of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services. The commissioner is appointed by the president of the United States with the advice and consent of the Senate. Obama just put your taylor as commisioner with consent of Senate !
9. What evidence can you show me? you can prove people are not getting hurt when we see with our own eyes people getting hurt ?
10. I use Mercola for info and don’t rely on everything he says. His info is free. Wahls is not selling a thing. Did you see her video ? Gerson has been around for decades started by a German yid and scientist who ran away from Nazis. Today it is run by daughter. The principles are sound but i have no first hand knowledge. I know a distant relative of mine who was given less than one year to live with breast cancer but is going on year 3 with juicing (backbone of Gerson therapy) but i do not know enough to evaluate it. If chas veshalom i had to deal with this, i would go straight to hippocretes in florida for two weeks and then to the biggest nutritionist i can find.
My friend, as some point we will have to close discussion because it really takes up alot of time. But i don’t want to be perceived like i am running away. Would you like to send a end time ? My invitation to cholent is still open. Maybe if we invite the Mod. he will connect us?? :)))
stam: The Gerson Method may have been around for 70 years, but that doesn’t mean anything. It hasn’t been succeeding at anything for 70 years.
Extensively, from WIkipedia:
Gerson’s therapy has not been independently tested or subjected to randomized controlled trials, and thus is illegal to market in the United States.[1] The Gerson Institute promotes the therapy by citing patient testimonials and other anecdotal evidence.[13] Gerson published a book discussing the alleged success of the therapy in 50 patients, but a review by the U.S. National Cancer Institute was unable to find any evidence that Gerson’s claims were accurate.[1] The NCI found that no in vivo animal studies had been conducted. Similarly, case series by Gerson Institute staff published in the alternative medical literature suffered from methodological flaws, and no independent entity has been able to reproduce the claims.[1]
Attempts to independently check the results of the therapy have been negative. A group of 13 patients sickened by elements of the Gerson Therapy were evaluated in hospitals in San Diego in the early 1980s; all 13 were found to still have active cancer.[12] An investigation by Quackwatch found that the institute’s claims of cure were based not on actual documentation of survival, but on “a combination of the doctor’s estimate that the departing patient has a ‘reasonable chance of surviving’, plus feelings that the Institute staff have about the status of people who call in”.[14]
A 1994 article in the Journal of Naturopathic Medicine[15] attempted to follow 39 Gerson patients in Tijuana. Patient interviews were used to confirm the existence and stage of cancer; most patients were unaware of the stage of their tumor, and medical records were not available. Most patients were lost to follow-up; of the patients successfully followed, 10 died and six were alive at their last follow-up. Review of this study pointed out its “obvious flaws”, including “the majority of patients lost to follow-up, lack of access to detailed medical records, and reliance upon patients for disease stage information”; the authors themselves regarded the results as unclear.
The American Cancer Society reported that “[t]here is no reliable scientific evidence that Gerson therapy is effective in treating cancer, and the principles behind it are not widely accepted by the medical community. It is not approved for use in the United States.”[2] In 1947, the National Cancer Institute reviewed 10 claimed cures submitted by Gerson; however, all of the patients were receiving standard anticancer treatment simultaneously, making it impossible to determine what effect, if any, was due to Gerson’s therapy.[16] A review of the Gerson Therapy by Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center concluded: “If proponents of such therapies wish them to be evaluated scientifically and considered valid adjuvant treatments, they must provide extensive records (more than simple survival rates) and conduct controlled, prospective studies as evidence”.[3] In 1959, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) again reviewed cases of patients treated by Gerson. The NCI found that the available information did not prove the regimen had benefit. Cancer Research UK states that “Available scientific evidence does not support any claims that Gerson therapy can treat cancer […] Gerson therapy can be very harmful to your health.”[17]
Safety concerns[edit]
Gerson therapy can lead to several significant health problems. Serious illness and death have occurred as a direct result of some portions of the treatment, including severe electrolyte imbalances. Continued use of enemas may weaken the colon’s normal function, causing or worsening constipation and colitis. Other complications have included dehydration, serious infections and severe bleeding.[2]
The therapy may be especially hazardous to pregnant or breast-feeding women.[2]
Coffee enemas have contributed to the deaths of at least three people in the United States. Coffee enemas “can cause colitis (inflammation of the bowel), fluid and electrolyte imbalances, and in some cases septicemia”.[18] The recommended diet may not be nutritionally adequate.[19][20] The diet has been blamed for the deaths of patients who substituted it for standard medical care.[21]
Relying on the therapy alone while avoiding or delaying conventional medical care for cancer has serious health consequences.[2] Jessica Ainscough, better known as “The Wellness Warrior”, was a major proponent of the Gerson diet after her diagnosis with cancer. She rejected medical treatment and followed the diet strictly, documenting her progress in a popular online blog. She died from the cancer in February 2015, aged 30.[22]
im not sure why this is so hard to understand. these doctors recommended diet and exercise to alleviate the symptoms. They made many recommendations and referred to a nutritionist for further assistance. This is what the DOCTOR did in order to treat the patients. He also followed up to make sure that medical intervention was not warranted.
These doctors did not STARE BLANKLY, they told the patient to begin with diet and exercise.
I don’t know if you have noticed tho that you speak of curing all these complex genetic diseases but when giving examples you talk about rashes, hypertension, and headaches which any schmo on the street will tell you is often corrected by diet.
You say that these posts are taking a lot of your time, well writing answers to you that you ignore and respond by just repeating what you said before is even more frustrating.
im sorry and i wish you clarity and better health.
Stam – The prob I have with you is Not your defense of nutritional medicine or that your Anti-Vax. But how could you defend kids coming to School – Unvaccinated?
Sam2 –
Just curious. What are the survival rates of chemo or radiation for all cancers? Too many of my neighbors died from them as have countless others. That you let slide? By law, only drugs are surgeries are allowed to cure disease. i.e. if i say eat this orange and you will get better, i can be arrested. That’s why they are banned in america (according to my understanding. please correct if wrong). Some parts of the therapy which they did mess up on was modified and like all therapies, are constantly evolving. Read up a little on free radicals and oxidation which leads to cancers and you will understand why the juicing which is a hallmark of gerson makes so much sense. Again, it is attacking cancer on the cellular level as cells regenerate. The American Cancer Society will never acknowledge any other treatment besides chemo and radiation. The priniciples make sense but again i don’t have first hand experience with it.
let me ask all of you, if stam a deya came up with a cure for cancer by eating an apple and standing on your head, and proved it over and over again, what do you think the medical establishments response would be? would they say “that’s great!” now we can close up the hundreds of hospitals and lay off the hundreds of thousands of people in the cancer business and bankrupt the thousands of business providing machines and drugs and chemo etc…the whole economy would callapse ! I know it sounds conspiracy etc…just curious to your reactions…..
Health, i do not defend anything. Reb Chaim shlit”a has paskened and has made known his deya. Who am i to state an opinion? I’m only stam a deya!
Syag,
A nutritionist or a dietitian? Do you know the difference? Your doctor doesn’t and neither do you.
Rashes? I am talking about complex auto-immune disorders like MS ? Did you miss that post as well? In fact it was addressed to you!
The problem is not my clarity or my skipping your questions. The problem is that my answers are not being read and that is eating up (pun intended) my time :))
stam
The study was NOT funded by the pharmecutical industry or government you claimed that was what you sought. Now you say ANY study in any journal is automaticly suspect. Are you listening to yourself?
Also why would the Lancet publish Wakefield (who you did trust on the other thread, though he did have a financial stake…) if it was anti vaccine? Why are dozens and dozens of articles publsihed showing that some therapies are not effective?
Why does the governement invest so much against cigarettes?
2. How do you connect a pesticide company to pharmaceuticals?
6. A heart blockage can be cured by diet? in how long?
7. No you have not. I’m actually still not sure as to your view. Do Drs reccmend diet or not?
9. Evidence that there are confounding variables. For example “everybody” knows that as soon as you get a carwash a bird makes a mess on your car. Dozens of friends swore this happned to them, Ive seen it happen. Do you think recently washed cars have a higher rate of attracting birds? (beleive it or not it has been studied, though not as vigorously as vaccines)
10. They are taking money from vulnerable people with no evidence that it works. Highly suspect in my book
stam
before you go can you please do me one favor.
You clearly no very little about the subject at hand. Ive tried to fill you in as best as I can but I’m not sure Im getting through.
Through this all there is one thing that we have overlooked and that is the diseases themselves. Please flip through some images of polio and its sequela (iron lungs, cripled children etc…) smallpox, Measles mumps etc… Jusy so you fully appreciate what it is that your pro-disease cult is trying to bring back r”l.
stam: I think the government and medical establishment would be ecstatic if you cured cancer, and they wouldn’t care how. There are tens of thousands of doctors out there, they’re not all in the pocket of “big pharma”.
I asked my friends finishing medical school. None of them were approached by anyone to pay them big money to vaccinate people and keep all of the “other alternatives” quiet.
Did you know that free radical functions are necessary for us to live in the first place? Many internal bodily functions can’t happen without free radicals. That’s why our body has so many mechanisms (and needs certain vitamins) to help control reaction between free radicals and DNA.
Ubiquiten,
2. It’s the same idea. The FDA will approve drugs since the organization is intrinsically corrupt and has ex-ceo on staff and similarly will approve pesticides since they have ex-ceo of pesticides on staff. (As an aside, the govt. recently ruled to allow even more pesticides to kill off weeds etc. since they became immune. I.e. what they said was safe before is no longer. now they are saying even more spraying is safe (why is it more safe? because they have made a situation where they need even more spraying!!). just another reason to go organic….)
3. Obviously blockage will not go away right away. It does take time.
7. As i mentioned to Syag, doctors will tell you cut down on salt for high blood pressure for ex. and that’s it. like everything else, they look at the body as individual parts and not a part of a whole. Like my friend, who only saw results when he radically changed his diet and came off medications (in his 30s!!!). Another friend who was also suffering from high blood pressure, was told by his doc to start medication right away. He had started investigating nutrition and asked his doc for two months or so. Sure enough his blood pressure fell and THE DOCTOR CALLED HIS WIFE TO ASK HER WHAT SHE WAS FEEDING HIM. HE COULDN’T BELIEVE IT. Syag got bent out of shape because she doesn’t understand this difference. I guess it was my fault for not being clearer.
9. Go tell that to my neighbor whose son died on the way back from the doctors office right after getting 3 vaccines.
10. Who is taking money? Wahls asks for donations towards the $3,000,000 study that she is conducting as a scientist and a MD in the Univ. of Iowa. She has pledged 50% of all profits towards this foundation. Watch her video and tell me yourself about her sincerity. Mercola provides free info. and has a staff of 15 people or so cranking out two lengthy articles everyday. He also sells vitamins etc…If i opened up a nutrition clinic i would also. If you have to take fish oil for ex., why should the pharmacy make the profit, let me make it. I see nothing wrong with that. Gerson has been around for a long time and if people are still going to them, that tells me that there is something to it (especially since most of what they say makes sense even to a lay person like myself). Again, there is nothing wrong with them making a business out of it. But, admittedly, i hear their fees are exorbitant.
Sam2
Your friends who finished medical school have been trained by a medical school which was funded by pharma companies. They simply do not know better….Even the dieticians were educated in schools funded by Coca cola and Nestle….Why do you think that’s so ??
And regarding Ubiquiten’s second post:
You clearly no very little about nutrition and alternative health since you have been brainwashed by the standard medical establishment which is funded by the pharmaceutical companies (surprised?). Don’t feel bad since you are in the majority. I’ve tried to fill you in as best as I can but I’m not sure I’m getting through. Through this all there is one thing that we have overlooked and that is the diseases themselves. Please flip through some images of people suffering from Cancer, Heart disease, diabetes, M.S., Lou Gherigs, Crohns, Celiac disease, ulcerative colitis, gallstones, High blood pressure , Hyperthroidism, Osteoarthritis, Osteoporosis Parkinsons, Psoriasis etc… Just so you fully appreciate what it is that your pro-medicine cult has contributed to. And let’s not forget the #3 of death in America after cancer and heart disease……hospital mistakes! By the time i have written this post a one person has died from careless mistakes. I believe the number is 600,000 a year !!! I guess they got their prescriptions mixed up….
Personally, i think this conversation is no longer constructive. I do thank you and everyone else for your time. I apologize if i insulted anyone in the heat of the argument etc…It was fun while it lasted. Take care of yourselves and I wish you all a ????? ?????? ???? and may this be the only argument and difference between us and all yidden everywhere. All the best, Stam a Deya.
P.S. You guys can have the last word !!
“Syag got bent out of shape because she doesn’t understand this difference. I guess it was my fault for not being clearer.”
You are so offensive. This is an outright lie and I would expect you to reconsider your words. Not only do you have no clue what i was told by doctors, even what i TOLD you you refuse to accept. Coupled with your other response:
“A nutritionist or a dietitian? Do you know the difference? Your doctor doesn’t and neither do you.”
I can only tell you that i would never consider a professional of any kind with the lack of knowlege, listening skills or people skills you are demonstrating here.
He also sells vitamins etc…If i opened up a nutrition clinic i would also. If you have to take fish oil for ex., why should the pharmacy make the profit, let me make it. I see nothing wrong with that. Gerson has been around for a long time and if people are still going to them, that tells me that there is something to it (especially since most of what they say makes sense even to a lay person like myself). Again, there is nothing wrong with them making a business out of it. But, admittedly, i hear their fees are exorbitant.
You do realize that with that paragraph you’ve undermined your entire argument, don’t you?
“A nutritionist or a dietitian? Do you know the difference?”
Can you enlighten us?
“trained by a medical school which was funded by pharma companies.”
How do you spell conspiracy?
stam: So because pharmaceutical companies fund hospitals and med schools every med student who steps foot into med school is somehow magically brainwashed to not understand nutrition? The labs they study in school that explain how medication works are fake? I’m really confused as to your logic.
Also, let’s point this out: “Lou Gherigs, Crohns, Celiac disease”
I have a feeling anyone who has known someone who has died of ALS would walk up to you and punch you in the face for that comment. It is a debilitating disease with no known cure or treatment. Neurons all over the body (starting with extremities and moving closer) just stop working and no one has figured out why. But you, mister genius quach stam a deya, have figured out the cure! Who needs the hundreds of millions donated to research last summer? Who needs to look into anything? So again, I challenge you:
Publish what you say works and how or admit that you are either a liar or a murderer for not sharing this information to the World.
Celiac is a hereditary immune system condition in which your antibodies attack gluten molecules as if they were bacteria, which ends in the antibodies attacking and destroying villi in the stomach and intestines. Please explain to me how your cell-healthy diet fixes that.
Syag,
Although i said i would not respond further, I am upset that you were insulted by my words and I apologize and feel a need to respond due to your genuine anger. We are simply not communicating. I explained (a few times in fact) that the doctor will only give instructions on cutting down on salt for high blood pressure but will not sit down for two hours and explain all aspects of nutrition which will affect the high blood pressure. He simply is not equipped to do this with 40 hours of training of nutrition (compared to who knows how long with administering medication). Am i wrong? Do you care to share with me what he did say about your husbands condition? I think not (and frankly it really is none of my business and i even asked the mod. to delete a comment yesterday requesting it which i thought was not appropriate….which he did). Sorry, that’s the best i can do. If you still do not understand what i am saying, you should book an appointment with a nutritionist (NOT A DIETECIAN) and compare their instructions with those of your doctor. You will be pleasantly surprised by the improvement of your husband’s condition. Again, sorry
for hard feelings. I obviously do not possess the superior communication skills that you obviously possess and that you would expect from a professional.
Sam, is it really worth arguing with someone who thinks selling medications is a bias but selling vitamins isn’t?
Do you care to share with me what he did say about your husbands condition? I think not
Sure I do. I think I did already. MY HUSBANDS DOCTOR is the one who said nutritionist, not dietician.
My husband is fine thanks to the doctors advice regarding diet and exercise.
Your communication is not the problem, you are in denial. I have spent many hours working with mom’s in denial regarding different issues in their children’s lives as well as pysch patients in denial about many things. I know it when I see it. and an appropriate name for my feelings is pity, not anger.
altho explaining is futile. You have already told me that two or three of my OWN personal experiences never even happened.
perhaps all the vaccines have made me hazy….
FOR ANYONE ELSE who is considering alternative medicine for chronic illness – look REALLY hard before jumping in. There are many illnesses that can be helped thru these means WITHOUT A DOUBT, but extremists (of any kind) are not open to reality and can cost you your life.
My sister went to an excellent, highly recommended alternative medicine doctor (at the advice of her own doctor) in the hopes of help with autoimmune issues and severe headaches. The alternative doctor insisted she get off the steroids IMMEDIATELY as it is pure poison. When her dose was dropped just a drop, and very carefully, she went into liver failure and almost died. She spent weeks in the hospital and was put on the transplant list. It took months to recover.
Be very careful who you believe, while there are plenty success stories, snake oil salesman are still out there.
DY: No, but it is very important for the rest of the world to realize that he is wrong. Disproving such ideas can be actual Pikuach Nefesh.
Syag,
Thank you for your pity. It is most kind of you to have mercy for such small minded people like myself. When you wrote that your doctor suggested a nutritionist, you did not write AND NOT A DIETICIAN like you did now and i wrongly thought that you meant a dietician since most people do not know the difference (see apushata yid’s comments above). If you would have just written that, I would not have made this mistake (why didn’t you say so from get go?).
If i was in denial, i would have never switched over to my way of thinking after 30 years. Perhaps the vaccines have infact made you hazy since i mentioned more than one time that I would vaccine at this stage in my life yet you continue to say i am in denial….Since i was vaccinated myself, and therefore hazy like you, do you wish to tell me about the 2 or 3 experiences that i said did not happen? That is ofcourse if you want to continue the discussion with a psycho. I’m sure out of pity you will concede…..
The first Dr. Wahls tells you is to continue all medicine and to only slowly wean off with consent of doctor. B”h, you sister is ok now.
Sam2
“Publish what you say works and how or admit that you are either a liar or a murderer for not sharing this information to the World.”
I already gave you a reference as a starting point. Dr. Terry Wahls. google for the video or read her book The Wahls Protocol. Do you want me to copy and paste the whole book on this blog? Don’t think the mod. would be too happy…..
DY,
Selling vitamins are vitamins they should be taking anyways so not unethical for nutritionist to sell their own (provided that they need it). Obviously, you have to find an ehrlich nutritionist. Doctors to not sell medicine they only prescribe it. I never accused doctors of greed just misinformed and improperly trained through no fault of their own.
Why aren’t more people medical doctors? They make good money, do good work, are respected, and there’s a general shortage of them.
Wait, I know, because medical schools have a threshold. Only bright people capable of understanding science and statistics can get in and stay in. You know, the kind who you want to evaluate medical questions of life and death.
Anyone who goes with the anti-vax, naturalistic, simplistic, idiotic ad hominem attacks on Doctors and the FDA can be assured that the odds are quite high that they wouldn’t qualify for med school. Just sayin…
stam: All Dr. Wahls did was figure out which nutrients and vitamins fight MS best and altered her diet to maximize getting those chemicals in her body. It worked brilliantly. She in essence self-medicated *what the doctors were advising anyway* with her diet.
So we have discovered that MS, which is fought with naturally-occurring vitamins anyway, can be fought by eating those naturally. How on Earth does that help for cancer?
“(see apushata yid’s comments above)”
I did. You didnt respond to it. What IS the difference?
“I never accused doctors of greed just misinformed and improperly trained through no fault of their own.”
Bchasdei Hashem, these misinformed, improperly trained doctors have been the shluchim of hashem to treat, cure and (in some cases)nearly eradicate many, many illnesses and diseases through the discovery of antibiotics and vaccinations. If Hashem has chosen other shluchim and other methods of eradicating, treating or curing disease, so be it. Harbei shluchim lamakom.
Sam2 – Doctors were not advising anything but drugs to control symptoms. There is in the medical world no cure for MS and she turned conventional thinking on it’s head. What she proved is that if you eat those nutrients which support the mitochondria in the cells so they can work properly, those cells will regenerate into healty cells. So far, she has only proved it with MS don’t know if there is funding for Cancer etc…
Stam, the same would apply to the pharmaceutical industry, even if they actually controlled the medical schools.
You want to believe what you want to believe, but your selective skepticism and accusations of conflict of interest are completely illogical; in fact, backwards.
From Wahls’ own website:
“Then it occurred to me to search for vitamins and supplements that helped any kind of progressive brain disorder. Slowly I created a list of nutrients important to brain health and began taking them as supplements. The steepness of my decline slowed, for which I was grateful, but I still was declining.
In the summer of 2007, I discovered Functional Medicine, an organization devoted to helping clinicians use the latest scientific discoveries to take better care of those with complex chronic diseases. As a result I developed a longer list of vitamins and supplements that were good for my brain. Then I had an important epiphany. What if I redesigned my diet so that I was getting those important brain nutrients not from supplements but from the foods I ate?”
pushutayid,
it’s really quite pashut. google what’s the difference and you will get loads of articles. Doctors have been the shluchim of hashem to treat, cure and (in some cases) nearly eradicate many, many illnesses and diseases through the discovery of antibiotics and vaccinations. But lets not forget the 600,000 a year that are killed through sheer negligence in a hospital – the third biggest “killer” in america. ??? ???????? ??????.
HaRav Binyomin Eisenberger Shlit”a on a chol Hamoed gave two or three shiurim on this topic, and although he didn’t pasken, he said based on all the shitos and medical facts that we know, students need to be vaccinated.
Stam. Lets assume the 600k figure is correct. What percentage of people actually treated by the medical profession annually does it represent. Are the odds the same, better or worse than “alternative” medicines.
The website nutrtionist-world lists the following:
Nutritionist –
Quite simply, a basic definition of a Nutritionist would be any professional with an education in nutritional science of any kind, working in a capacity where they are trusted to instruct, recommend and or assist with the nutrition, diet and wellness of their clients or patients.
Dietician –
A Dietitian, on the other hand, under current regulations, must earn a four-year degree in dietetics or nutritional sciences from an accredited college or university, complete a regulation internship in the nutrition science field as well as pass the Registered Dietitian (RD) or Dietetic Technicians, Registered (DTR) examination authorized by the Commission on Dietetic Registration (CDR), the credentialing agency of the American Dietetic Association (ADA).
Seems to me I’d rather see a dietician.
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