Lakewood asifa

The one where they warned against it due to the threat against Yiddishkeit from the Israeli government?

I’m not sure most Israelis will really care if they have a smaller number of ehrliche Lakewood yidden making aliyah. The new government is not launching a war on yiddeshkeit but clearly will be seeking to respond to the beliefs of the their constituents that ALL those living in EY should be treated equally regarding military/public service obligations, taxes, government subsidies etc.

At least they found some new issue about which to hold an asefa. For a while, it seemed that all the asefas were held with the singular purpose of screaming gevalt about the internet and “assuring” smart phones among the yungerleit.

Was it an asifa, or a marketing event? (with what I hear was a disappointing turnout.)

You can always count on GH to feel a tingling down her spine when someone may have compromised their values or weakened their values.
Spoiler alert: some accomplished all that without internet. Our schools used conference calls.

Avram,
this is was said by a couple of Rabonim on the phone. I also do not hear the same from the Rabbis in the community, regardless of their affiliation. Maybe some speak differently when addressing a larger audience.

Avram: The OP was about some Asifah….we haven’t heard about them much for the past 18 months b/c of the Covid restrictions. The last big gathering was not a “gevalt gathering” but that incredible Met Life Stadium daf yomi siyum back on New Years Day 2020 just before the Covid shutdowns. Before that there were several well publicized and reported “internet asifahs”.
P.S. For those who felt “conference calls” were a good substitute for in-person learning or zoom virtual calls, your entitle to your opinion. A properly filtered computer appears to have worked for many frum families and schools without resulting in tens of thousand of kids going OTD or a big spike in divorces because of
frum guys discovering pritzus on the internet.

Syag: Sorry it upsets you that many kids actually did quite well when introduced to virtual classes and I’m thrilled you are tolerant of “kosher” internet use. It affirms your bona fides as a open-minded, creeped-out but woke observer of the evolving world of frum interaction with the internet in the post-covid era. And yes, I think its a win for all when increasing numbers of young men and women are provided access to the internet under appropriate controls. Within a few years, I’m hopeful even the holdouts will reassess their concerns and you will be reading their posts here in the CR

Always_Ask_Questions,

“Is attitude towards internet is really a community “value”.”

Absolutely.

“Internet is a protocol.”

That’s an etymological fallacy. You know well that when people refer to “the Internet” they are talking about the content that’s available via the Internet, not the details of how content is delivered.

“It can lead to dangerous places, sure. You can argue who and when and how should or not using it. but a “value”.”

That’s exactly what’s being argued, and to care about the potential dangers is indeed to have a value, so why the tempest in a teapot?

“So, someone who wanted to learn during pandemic, would have to limit himself to conference calls.”

If he wasn’t willing to open a connection in his home to the Internet, which as you pointed out can lead to dangerous places, then sure.

“What if he wants to look up a sefer that he does not have at home. Should he have a conference call with Ramban?”

How did we get such great gedolim before the Internet, when they surely did not have every sefer in existence at home? How did people who did not use the Internet before Covid solve this problem before Covid? They went to the beis medrash and got the sefer off the shelf. Same thing during Covid.

“…the disturbing underlying obssession/hyperfocus on the veering of sheltered or careful people from their lifestyle. As if you just can’t untangle yourself. And you can’t let them have their victory…”

You miss the point entirely. Some have had their victory by finding a balanced way of maintaining their lifestyle while simultaneously using the normal advancements of society to improve the lives of themselves and their families in the same way our people have done for thousands of years. Even the most ardent, machmir chareidim don’t live today in the same way our forefather did in the time of the avos/emahos but have carefully selected those elements of modern technology and services that they (with the advice of dass torah) believe are consistent with their views of halacha and their haskafah. I don’t recall seeing any of the rabbonim coming to the Asefas riding a donkey on the NJ turnpike nor do I recall their objecting to using a sound amplification system rather than yelling at the tops of their voices about the evils of the internet etc. As I noted earlier, your entitled to your wrong opinion about trends in adopting technology and economic (versus cultural) integration in the Charedi tzibur as am I except I don’t find your views “creepy”, just a bit parochial.

Gadolhadorah,

“The OP was about some Asifah….”

And the OP is included in my question.

“The last big gathering was not a “gevalt gathering” but that incredible Met Life Stadium daf yomi siyum back on New Years Day 2020 just before the Covid shutdowns.”

Right, but in “CR” parlance, asifa specifically means a gevalt gathering.

“Before that there were several well publicized and reported “internet asifahs”.”

I recall one that was well publicized. And the derision towards the event and the misrepresentation of it by those who did not go nor hold by the rabbeim in attendance seemed to spill far more ink. I’m just wondering why that is.

“P.S. For those who felt “conference calls” were a good substitute for in-person learning or zoom virtual calls, your entitle to your opinion.”

Why on earth would you put Zoom classes into the same category as in-person? Do you think the Zoom classes held by schools were an adequate substitute for their in-person classes? I think education was devastated last year.

“A properly filtered computer appears to have worked for many frum families and schools without resulting in tens of thousand of kids going OTD or a big spike in divorces”

Did you conduct a poll? B”H I’ve not heard of an increase in divorces, but struggles with kids’ education and computer use? Absolutely.

Avram,
I heard this talk myself firsthand online, I am ashamed to say.

>> Do you think the Zoom classes held by schools were an adequate substitute for their in-person classes? I think education was devastated last year.

Many zoom classes were not good. Same as, to go with GH examples, a donkey driver had hard time feeding barley to his first car. You need to know what you are doing. Especially when both teachers and students are not bakiim and there is no computer support, the result will be sub-optimal.

Real online schools do not have all classes on zoom. They have some classes live through systems that do not distract when students log in (or not), and then they have online curriculum and list of materials you can access and tests, many with automatic grading. Types of classes and tests are structured into several types and kids learn to navigate and know what to expect – which tests just check what you remember from the class, others have harder problems and larger part of the grade.

Avrum can correct me if I’m wrong but i took his post to mean something additional.
People outside are making lots of claims about what is going on in our communities and not only are those claims heresay, but they actually aren’t happening. I thought the mention of not hearing it first hand in the actual communities was because it isn’t happening there. Most of it is poor renditions of things people outside the community like to say (fabricate? Take out of context?) about us – more formally called lashon hora

My daughter who was “home schooled over the phone” as you have dubbed it was listening to her teaches teaching class on the same schedule as in person. They prepared and taught, while managing their own kids, and should definitely be paid for it. Additionally, they prepared weeks worth of sources/handouts and we picked them up from the parking lot, exchanging it for homework and tests.
Almost every packet contained a treat and a project. I was thoroughly surprised and impressed.

My sons yeshivas did english on zoom or through the same portal they used in yeshiva. Other sons yeshivos gave shiur by phone and they had chavrusas by phone as well.

Pretty good for disorganized archaic inflexible orthodox people, no?

I am absolutely an outsider to tristate, MO, chassidish, and chabad communities. But you were referencing my community. And you speak of them as they. So therefore, because i am responding to you, i use your setup. If you wanted to disparge your own community i would word it differently.

Syag Lchochma,

“not only are those claims heresay, but they actually aren’t happening. I thought the mention of not hearing it first hand in the actual communities was because it isn’t happening there.”

Yes, such as characterizing the “big” internet asifa a number of years ago as “the rabbis banning the Internet”, which it was not. But sometimes it’s not fabricating, but rather a matter of ayin ra, like taking the content of a shiur, or something a rav says, and running it through a negativity filter. Or becoming well versed in all of the machlokes of the bnei Yisroel. We shouldn’t be looking at our tents with Bilaam’s eyes. When I was new to a particular community, a new friend I made said something disparaging about a big rav in the community – that his drashos were fire and brimstone and he didn’t care to hear them. As much as I try to not accept lashon hara, this statement did unfortunately affect my opinion of the rav, until I got a chance to actually listen to a bunch of his drashos and ask him a shaila. Lo and behold, he never brought up gehennom or called us horrible sinners or anything like that. He spoke passionately about how important Torah learning and mitzvos were, and exhorted us to do more, without sugarcoating things. And he answered my shaila with warmth and a twinkle of humor.

Their having another Asifa tomorrow Thursday July 15th at the same location as last time for the same topic of those interested in moving to EY

Wednesday, July 14, 2021
Second Asifa for Kiryas Lakewood – Akko
 A second follow up asifa is scheduled in Lakewood tomorrow evening for American Youngeleit looking to establish a Torah community in Eretz Yisrael in the city of Acco. See video below of the first meeting in Lakewood

> Gutting a school’s experienced staff when the students might have been returning to in-person classes fairly soon might not have been a good idea

Not suggesting gutting staff, but if you concur that there were better educational options that were not applied in consideration for staff, a better solution would have been to let teachers collect unemployment for a couple of months till summer and then later possibly join a quality online program with your staff. this is sort yom sheni boker quarterbacking, it is of course time of uncertainty. I specifically refer to my discussion with a local lawmaker – I gave him a very clear picture what needs to be done, it was pretty simple, he bought into that, and had to back up due to people who care about their money more than what the kids learn. There are often such illuminating cases in messy life, like greenees who cry wolf but would not accept nuclear energy in order to save Florida from sinking into the ocean.

Always_Ask_Questions,

“but if you concur that there were better educational options that were not applied in consideration for staff, a better solution would have been to let teachers collect unemployment for a couple of months till summer and then later possibly join a quality online program with your staff.”

I do not concur. In my original response and follow-ups I made several interrelated points in response to your idea to rapidly deploy online schooling. Instead of responding directly to them you have applied a false dilemma to one of them and want to make the conversation about nothing but that.

How will a school deploy online learning to a student body that largely lacks internet connected devices or even an internet connection at home? And libraries and other places with public WiFi are closed.

Online learning is independently driven, but children still require considerable oversight to help manage and organize their tasks. You can’t just throw them in front of a Chromebook in September and say, “see you in June!” Who will perform this oversight? If teachers, they will need training (assuming they are still employed). If parents, what if they need to work?

What if schools were able to reopen much more quickly than they did, and resources have been spent to stand up online programs?

I’m not saying schools made the best or correct decisions at every step, or that online schooling solutions wouldn’t have helped, but I do not think you have magic answers, even on the Monday morning after the game.

“I gave him a very clear picture what needs to be done, it was pretty simple, he bought into that, and had to back up due to people who care about their money more than what the kids learn.”

Did he tell you that directly, or are you assuming that?

> How will a school deploy online learning to a student body that largely lacks internet connected devices or even an internet connection at home?

A good question … Many cities provided funding for laptops and internet.

> You can’t just throw them in front of a Chromebook
> If parents, what if they need to work?

I do not deny the challenge. I am just saying that one would need to start with existing resources.

Online schools have systems that allow parents easy view of what was done and what will be done. There is also a councilor that looks at all grades and talks to each kid for 15 minutes weekly to make sure kids are on target. Many of the quick tests are multiple-choice and both the kid and you get answers immediately. So, you can quickly see what is going on and the kid knows that too.

From our perspective, ability to monitor classes is a great way that allows using this great public resource. For example, one woke teacher used an anti-Israeli material instead of a standard one. It was “balanced” – an anti-Jewish Pali article was balanced with an anti-Jewish Israeli article … So, we learned the sugya in depth, brought all other materials, and discussed what motivated the teacher to show material like that, etc. Even in good Jewish schools, you may not have such blatant stuff, but there will be lots of narishkeit in general studies [of course, some would say – why social studies].

Another useful trick – sign kids for hard online classes, so that they’ll require your help. If you know the stuff, you can direct them and connect general studies with the Jewish POV. If you don’t, you can bond by studying together.

> Did he tell you that directly, or are you assuming that?

I applaud you going for primary sources. response from the state Edu committee staffer forwarded to me by another staffer:: as the funding will go from districts, depending how it will be handled, could face resistance from the local level (and not just from teachers).

This was early in the pandemic, there is more activity in many states this year. I hear that Florida Virtual School franchises their online system to other states.

for now, some states have state online schools that, as mentioned above, are seen as competition for funds with local money pits. A promising trend seems to create virtual schools per district, i.e. money do not leave the district.

@GH, sorry that stuff was yesterdays news, or to be exact 5 years ago news

AAQ – Lets put this into your type of language. the virtual learning was necessary from after Pesach until summer vacation. Any virtual learning after that (unless homeschooling) was for people willing to abandon their children’s emotional and developmental health for the sake of politics and psychotic parents. Any who continued to keep a healthy child on zoom beyond summer 2020 had no interest in what was best for their children to the point of possible negligence.

AAQ – I have no doubt that your kids are doing well homeschooling thru online programs, it is obviously something into which you have invested a lot of time and energy and commitment.. I have not found the other line programs to be useful for anyone but myself so if it is working for you and your kids count your blessings.

Problem for me is instead of you insisting on a total online Internet revamp in the schools for the sake of expanding the covid-19 epidemic, possibly supports  your personal and political views. I don’t understand why you will not accept and acknowledge the return to the classroom of most of the bais yakov schools was the right move. You can see it worked out well, why can’t you acknowledge that and say perhaps you were wrong about the need to lock the kids up longer? Or that you are glad it worked and everyone was safe because you weren’t expecting that. Why no flexibility on this when the facts don’t add up in your favor?