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I’ve always davened the way I was taught in school–??? ???? ??? and ??? ???? ???. My daughter told me today that she was taught to say ??? ???? ???? and ??? ???? ????
Is this the way most of you were taught? I have never heard of this minhag before.
Oh. I always say shelo asani goy. That is what I was taught.
i was taught what u were taught. that is so weird!
I was taught to daven “bifnim”, meaning what the siddur says!
I was tought to say “MODA ani l’fanecha” in the morning instead of “mode ani”
I was tought to say “MODA ani l’fanecha” in the morning instead of “mode ani”
That is quoted in the name of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ZT”L in Halichos Shlomo.
I say MODEH ani. I saw in a siddur MODA, and I asked and was told to keep saying MODEH. Upon further research, someone showed me a sephardi siddur that not only said MODA, but also ??? ???? ???? and ??? ???? ????. Asking again, the rabbi (who has a great sense of humor) told me to keep saying it the way I’m used to, “because if you daven for the omud, you don’t want to get confused.” 🙂
The Sefardim do. i.e. Anyone who davons eidut mizrach.
MII,
can you please tell us what type of school it is?
For example, Bais Yaakov, Dati Leumi, etc.
Thank you.
MIY; that is the nusach sfard/mizrach. If it is mixed class, and the sfardim are the rov, in some places they will go with the rov. If it is not a mixed group, and ashkenazi, something is wrong. There are times in EY where you go with the flow, and times when maintaining your mesorah requires conscious effort.
My 7 year old daughter asked me if an ??? ???? can say ??? ???? ??? in davening or not?!!
My Rov thought and then said that he can cos he’s thanking HaShem for not making him an ??? ?????
I daven the way the brachas were always written. I have never heard of this new form.
Its a free country!!!!!!!!!! 🙂
I have a beautiful Women’s siddur from Rabbi Dovid Weinberger and the only difference is “sheasani kirzono”. That is the only change made for women.
When I was in EY on kibbutz twenty years ago, a recently converted young woman told me that she had been taught to say “…shifcha” (at the time I didn’t ask about ‘goya’)but after that I only saw it as an alternate in a new “progressive” siddur.
Different question: when do you say Elokai Neshoma, after Netilas Yadayim/Asher Yatzar, or after Eilu Devorim? We were taught the latter but my kids are taught the former, the way it’s printed in their siddurim.
This is definitely something you should check with your Posek/Rov.
Years ago my husband returned from E”Y with a siddur for me that had the Berochos as Goya and Shifcha. I used it for many years and davened so even after the siddur disappeared. Perhaps i gave it to a young BT girl from Ukraine who stayed with us for a while or else one of my sons decided to clean up around Pesach time.
Anyway, at our bungalow colony we started to doing Tefilla Betzibur on Rosh Chodesh and i was one of the voulunteers for the Berachos. Yes, i used Shifcha and Goya version. The women were apalled and asked where it came from and i told them the story.
One woman discussed it with her husband who did some research and came back to me saying that one could not answer Amen when saying Brachos in Goya and Shifcha version.
I did revert back to the siddur version as i have tried to purchase a women’s version siddur with Goya and Shifcha version(that may have some explanation) but to no avail.
Let the comments keep coming including a comment directly from a Rav who is a Posek too, not as second source.
“I was taught to daven ‘bifnim’ meaning what the siddur says”
To daven bifnim is highly commendable. The drawback is that you are saying what the printer of that particular siddur chose to print. In many siddurim there are a variety of nuschaos in several parts of davening. Common examples include morid hageshem/hagashem, and many other phrazes in davening that some shuls say while others dont especially nusach sefard. One must therefore know what is one’s minhag or mesorah to say or of the shul you are in, and not just read blindly from whatever it happens to say in the siddur you are using at that particular tefillah.
da’as yochid: My recollection is that R’ Shlomo Zalman says NOT to say moda ani. can you please give us the exact source?
A cute story for the Yiddish speakers.
An old woman was overheard saying after ????? A Bracha V’hatzlohe oif mein Keppleh When asked “Bubby why dont you say mein Kop?” “Well when I becamea “big girl”I decided to change. But it struck me strange “yesterday a Keppele all of a sudden a Kap?”
da’as yochid: My recollection is that R’ Shlomo Zalman says NOT to say moda ani. can you please give us the exact source?
?????? ???? – ???? – ??? ?’ – ????? ???? 17
i have a womens artscroll siddur that my kids bought for me some years ago and it is great!
love it!!
The following ?? ????? discusses ??? ???? ???? and ??? ???? ????,
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14418&st=&pgnum=150&hilite=
as does the (??? ????? (???????
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36229&st=&pgnum=16&hilite=
oh i say Shelo asani GOYTA!! and especially at this time of year!!
daas yochid, nice marei mekomos. thanks! The Butchatcher ends off not to change from the siddur, and that a woman should also say ‘goy’ and ‘eved’.
DY, Can you summarize those for those of us who don’t have time or energy to read through it all? (Assuming you’ve already read it.)
The ?? ????? brings a ??? ??? and a ???”? who say that women should say ??? ???? ???? and ??? ???? ???? with ?? ??????, and the ???”? and ??”? who hold not to say ?? ??????.
Goodbye summarized the (??? ????? (??????? correctly, I’ll just add that he says that the words ??? and ??? include a ???? and ????.
oh i say Shelo asani GOYTA!! and especially at this time of year!!
Isn’t that the same as ??? ???? ????? 🙂
“i have a womens artscroll siddur that my kids bought for me some years ago and it is great!”
My wife got it, but when she realized that the first word was “modeh” rather than “modah” she put it down and never used it again. I don’t understand why a woman would say “modeh” any more than I would say “modah”.
The female sfardim say “shlo asani goyah” and “shlo asani shifchah”.
hahaha: good one!
Isn’t there a bracha in the women’s siddur, “please send me a cleaning lady before Pesach”?
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