- This topic has 29 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 9 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I wanted to get some ideas from people as to what works for them. How have you motivated yourself to keep steady with learning on a daily basis? Stories about I used to stop and start but now I am steady due to x would be helpful. This is a serious question and could really help the olam. If you want to joke choose another blog.
To start with, use your commute time to fit in some form of learning (like listening to shiurim while driving or bringing a sefer on the train).
Have a goal. Try to make a siyum so you have an end goal in mind. If you know you have to learn X by a certain date, you are more motivated.
Try your hardest not to skip on your time, unless something important comes up.
If you are married with children, this is obviously harder. You need to work your schedule in conjunction with your wife and kids. Remember that your family responsibilities do come first, but learning is of utmost importance as well.
Remember that your family responsibilities do come first, but learning is of utmost importance as well.
Where did you get that family responsibilities comes before learning?
Have a Chavrusa or Shiur that you are expected to be at. Embarassment at not being there is a motivator.
Reward yourself for learning. If the shiur has Chulent in brings in people.
Rav Yisroel Salanter famously said “If you only have 15 minutes to learn, learn Mussar, because then you will find you have more than 15 minutes to learn”.
And maybe most critical, marry someone who believes that her husband should be Kovaia Itim. Numerous times the house has been hopping, and Ittisa (B”H) willingly wants me to go learn.
Where did you get that family responsibilities comes before learning?
I like your question. Are you asking rhetorically, or are you really unsure of the answer?
Unsure.
I joined a chabura and have a chavrusa (as part of the chabura). I have found that when I have a responsibility to a chavrusa and chabura I make less excuses and dont miss. 10 years and 4 massechtos later, it ranks as one of the best decisions I have ever made. 5AM was hard in the beginning, but after 6 months it got easy. It was tough to commit to 1.5 hours of learning for myself every day with the responsibility to my wife and kids, including learning with them every night. At 5am, I have very few scheduling conflicts 🙂
Stam63: I have definitely been in the stop and start crowd. I truly enjoy my learning, and if I may be a bit immodest – I am quite good at it, but with many other obligations, it is often hard to maintain a solid comitment to koveah itim. Unfortunately, my attempts to force myself to comit by engaging chavrusos failed – mostely because my chavrusa had the same problem I did.
I have found that the best solution for me is to (1) Have a substantial substantive project to work on, (2) Make sure that the time est aside for learning can be reasonably maintained as part of my schedule, and (3) Not try to overdo the time commitment so that I can comfortably say to my wife and any others that have demands of my time, “I’m sorry, but for this time of the day I just can’t do X.”
When my schedule was lighter, my project was to write a volume of essays on chumash based on the ideas of R. Samson Raphael Hirsch, a project to which I committed my weekday mornings (I spent my afternoons working, and weekends were entirely for my wife). I never completed the project to my satisfaction, but the goal kept me disciplined for well over a year. More recently, I decided to get smicha in Choshen Mishpat (I am a law student, so the project has special interest to me). I found a structured program that I could work through at my own pace, found a time to do it (5:20-7:00 each morning), and made sure that the time i devoted to the project would not interfere with my other obligations to my family. I believe very strongly that being koveah itim is MY obligation; I have to make sure to learn seriously and regularly. But that obligation does not give me an excuse to disregard or neglect my many other obligations. Consequently, I am compelled to cut into my sleep and personal relaxation time in order to learn without it seriously inconveniencing others.
I decided to get smicha in Choshen Mishpat
where do you get such a program?
Where did you get that family responsibilities comes before learning?
I like your question. Are you asking rhetorically, or are you really unsure of the answer?
Tums: Unsure
You’re giving me indigestion with your questions!
Seriously, it is (as all Jewish things are) a Machlokes. See Rashi & Tos. Keddushin 29B, Gittin 6B. I also remember a Gemorah regarding an Amorah abandoning his family to learn, but can’t remember where it is (probably somehwere in Kesubos).
I’m not sure if abandonment is the appropriate term.
What would be a better term?
Jewish Source: There is an online program called Pirchei Shoshanim. You can find them online; just google “Pirchei Shoshanim” or “Shulchan Aruch Project.” They have programs of organized written shiurim covering just about every part of Shulchan Aruch. The program is geared towards the smicha exams given by the Rabbanut in Israel, which are known to be some of the most difficult tests around.
A word of caution: I think that if used as a crutch or as a replacement for quality learning of the Tur, Bais Yosef, Gemaros, Rishonim, Shulchan Aruch, and nosei keilim, the program can be really problematic. Like learning Gemarah exclusively with an Artscroll, you will learn a lot of information (which is good in itself, don’t get me wrong) but will not really know how to learn the material properly on your own, or how to reason to a practical psak. I am therefore supplementing the program’s shiurim with my own extensive learning of relevant shailos and teshuvos, and by listening to a very major set of shiurim given by a huge talmid chacham on issues of halachik reasoning and how to paskin.
1) as gavra_at_work mentioned, mussar is important. Try one of the Chofetz Chaim’s Seforim, any one, three times a week for a few minutes. To me, its easy to read but very motivating, even when the sefer is about Ahavas Yisroel etc., he always encourages learning.
2) As others said, an attainable goal- continuously, making a new one when completing the first..
3) Setting a realistic minimum amount of learning time each day that we will always do, even if on a “tough” day (travel etc) its accomplished with an English halocha review Sefer etc.
I’m not familiar with any specific gemara where any Amora “abandoned” their family. It doesn’t sound like the torah way to “abandon” your family, even for limud torah. Would you say Rabbi Akiva abandoned his wife? Yaackov Avinu was punished for going away to learn for 22 years and not performing kibbud av, and he left with his parents “blessings”. please refer to a specific gemara, I’ll be happy to come up with an appropriate term. Abandonment, doesn’t sound appropriate.
I believe the gemorah has been quoted before in the CR, do a search. Also see Rashi on the Gemorah Keddushin I quoted.
Rabbi Akiva’s wife was willing. If your wife and family needs you, and you leave to learn, then its abandonment.
I know some men who use learning as an excuse to avoid homework/dinner/bath/bedtime. If you are doing that, chances are your learning has very little meaning.
Make sure your family is taken care of. They are your primary responsibility.
Remember, chinuch is not just about making sure your sons can learn gemara. They need to learn how to be a father, husband, and good person. Learning is absolutely a huge part of that, but being there for your family is also important.
You need to find a balance for yourself, your wife and your kids.
SJS- Gavra’s point was that there are opinions in the Torah that “abandonment” for the cause of the Torah is praiseworthy. And certainly priority to Torah over family is correct.
I’m not sure what Rashi and Tosfos specifically you are reffering to on 29b kiddushin. i assume it is on the gemaras answer “ha lan, viha lihu”. Which opinion says one may abandon his family to learn torah?
Which of these definitions of abandon, are permitted for talmud torah and how do you see it from rashi/tosfos?
Definition of ABANDON according to Merriam Webster:
transitive verb
1
a : to give up to the control or influence of another person or agent
b : to give up with the intent of never again claiming a right or interest in <abandon property>
2
: to withdraw from often in the face of danger or encroachment <abandon ship>
3
: to withdraw protection, support, or help from <he abandoned his family>
4
: to give (oneself) over unrestrainedly
5
a : to cease from maintaining, practicing, or using
And certainly priority to Torah over family is correct.
Where did GAW say it was praiseworthy? He said it was a machlokes as to what one should do.
Taking care of your family is part of Torah. Sitting and learning can be shifted around to take care of your family. Obviously, learning should be a priority, but you should STILL be there for your family.
Ask your LOR. Perhaps there is a hashkafa out there that says chinuch of your children is less important your own learning when you can do it later.
Sigh.
definition 3.
I’m just reading what the Rishonim say.
The Rambam on the topic (Ishus 12:14)
?? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ????, ?? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ??????, ?? ????? ??? ?? ????. ???? ?????, ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????; ??? ?? ???–?????? ??, ???????? ????, ??????? ??. ?? ?? ???–??????? ???? ?????? ???????, ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????, ???? ??? ???? ???? ???, ???? ?? ?? ???????. ???? ????? ???? ?????, ??? ??.
SA says similar (EH 71:1)
? ( ? ) ? ???? ??? ( ? ) ???? ???? ?) ??????? ?? ?????
??? ??( ? ) ? ?) ????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???
???? ??? ??? ? ???? ????? ? ??? [?] ?) ????? ? ) ?????
?? ?????? ? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? [?] ???????? ???? ???????
?? ? ??? ?? ??? ??????! ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?????
??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??
??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??????????? ???? ??? ??
??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???
? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ?.)??????:
So, you are advocating someone become an achzar and ignore a takanas chachamim to take care of his children? (the chiyuv to support his wife is an independent chiyuv which is not even discussed in the Rambam here). Do you think the Rambam you cite advocates doing that? Is there is section of the Rambam or do any of the nosei keilim add, “aval lilmod torah, hakol shari”?
I dont have a gemara kiddushin in front of me. Can you please give a mareh makom so that I can see it later? Rashi or tosfos diveri hamaschil…….? Another Rishon on the daf? Thanks.
apushatayid:
(assuming you are talking to me , not Tums).
I guess you haven’t noticed yet, but in general I try to take no position in the CR, only lay out the facts and allow those who want to make a choice to at least be somewhat informed. I am not taking a position here.
It is Ha Lan Ha Le’hu, Rashi & Tos. in Keddushin. Other meforshim (supposedly) hold it depends if he can support while being away.
GAW. This time I specifically am addressing you. You cite the Rambam and SA. What conclusion do you draw from those words. Did you cite them lihagdil torah ulihadera? Did you cite them in response to a comment someone made? Is this cited ALA “linda richmond” here is a Rambam, “discuss amongst yourselves”?
Because the question was asked.
Tums
Member
Remember that your family responsibilities do come first, but learning is of utmost importance as well.
Where did you get that family responsibilities comes before learning?
Yoreh Deah 246 implies that family takes precedence.
GAW. So, are you answering the last question? Are you citing a source that implies the opposite of the first statement? Are you merely throwing out info?
You don’t need me to read the Shulchan Aruch.
And no, I don’t have an answer for the Olam that doesn’t follow the Shulchan Aruch. Perhaps they are not learned in Torah and don’t know it.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.