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Someone showed me today an advertisement for an event titled “2016 Summer Finale Live Kumzitz on the Hudson”. It promotes “Delicious Gourmet Food” that includes a sushi bar, carving stations, slider bar, babka station, schnitzel bar, exotic nuts, a “Fully stocked bar on board”, and entertainment.
There was not a single reference to any form of hashgocho or standard of kashrus. No speeches, not introducing Elul, personal growth, or anything that had a whiff of kedusha in it. Only, but only the enticement to an affair of several hours with indulgence in gashmiyus.
I recall the fiasco that led to the ban of the Lipa concert (I am not a fan of Lipa or his music at all), and the number of rabbonim that signed against it. This was after he had procured haskomoh from other rabbonim to hold the concert (they are entitled to disagree), and a program in which some or most of the music would at least be based on psukim or tefilos. I may find that anbience offensive, but there would have been some devorim of kedusha involved.
This Kumzitz, as it seems, is completely devoid of any reference to kedusha. Where are the rabbonim to make this ossur, and to pressure the sponsors of this to stop this intrusion of yetzer horah into our community? The ad was offensive, and I suspect the program, which might be otherwise enjoyable to the body, would offend the neshomoh.
This is an important conversation, but can we have it without discussing a particular event?
It sounds like a Reform program; are you sure it’s Orthodox? If it purports to be Orthodox, unlike Lipa they’re not renting out Madison Square Garden and running ads where no one will miss them, so that may have flown under the rabbonim’s radar.
Rabbanim can only ban things that they have control over. They can ban a Lipa Concert, but they cannot ban a Matisyahu concert it wouldnt work
It is worthwhile noting that time has proven correct the rabbonim who banned Lipa. In recent years he has turned out to publicly be mevaze talmidei chachomim and gedolim on a regular basis, aside from the drivel he produces.
The rabbonim had the foresight most of us do not posses.
The same has proven true with rabbonim who banned Slifkin’s book. He, too, today regularly is mevaze talmidei chachomim on a full-time basis.
While i understand the need to attract donors, these affairs are over the top and many times contradictory to the cause they are raising money for.
The night after Tisha B’av, there was a FLEISHFEST in the Five Towns benefiting an organization and yeshiva that works with OTD or on the way to OTD boys.
The ad proclaimed ” WHISKEY INFUSED CIGARS – BOURBON, SCOTCH (i don’t remember all) TASTING !!
The grownups are allowed to all of these crazy things, and then we tell the kids NO? we are using the exact things we tell our teenagers are not right to raise money top help the kids that did EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DOING.
CRAZY!
Not uncommon during the summer. The boys need something to do while they are “Sharui B’lo Isha” as their families are in “the country”.
For some reason the “entertainment” always gets worse during these two months of the summer, and gets better for the other ten.
Mods….all this talk about Lipa is loshon hora and like a different person suggested this talk about particular even also…
Little, who appointed you king? If you don’t like it, don’t participate.
Little, who appointed you king?Did you mean “chumra king?”
You’re right, it should have been chumra king.
Joseph: I don’t know anyone or the entire situation, but you are claiming half of a “chicken or egg” conversation. Maybe Lipa is upset with the Gedolim and says bad things about them because he is hurt and his experiences do not match up with what he grew up expecting from Gedolim?
“not introducing Elul”
The event was tonight; Elul starts Saturday night.
But this isn’t the kind of event that would appeal to me — I would be interested in a cruise that had great Torah speakers.
Lipas music is pure goyish music with the words changed over to jewish & is ruining the ruchnius in klal yisroel & their children. how far away are they from pure real goyish music once they are enhanced in rocken lipa?
Not every event needs to be a Musser Schmooze and not every event needs to be a Tzedakah fundraiser. Actually I prefer events that aren’t fundraisers.
Kosher and disgusting are not two opposites. #NovolBirshusHatorah
Looks like fun. Can you post additional details?
Not my cup of tea. I might see the value if it was raising money for something, but it doesn’t seem to be. I’ve worked on events like Golf tournaments, Scotch and Steak nights, Fishing Trips where there was conspicuous consumption, but all of them were done for a program or organization I was proud to be a part of, doing good things in the Torah world and wider Jewish world. But stam parties for profit? I’d rather BBQ a steak and sip a single malt scotch in my own back yard, not on the Hudson on a party boat. So I’m not a fan.
That said, People have to take achrayus for themselves. The people putting this on, including a music producer who has done albums for several very well regarded Torahdik singers, will have to answer for it either to his commuity or to HKBH. The participants need to do a cheshbon hanefesh about the point and purpose, and if the $200 could have been better spent or given to tzedokoh. But they all need to make decisions as a sum of their education, upbringing and experience, and assume the consequences of their choices. If HKBH had wanted sheep, we’d all be in a herd eating grass. He wants his people to exercise free will, and that means sometimes they will err. The good thing about that is the opportunities it presents to make good choices and earn schar for that, or the opportunity to do tshuva over transgressive choices and grow closer to HKBH through that process.
yichusdik
why is it ok when done as a fund raiser?
Two weeks ago there where tzedakah organizations that held fundraisers during the nine days that were not just siyumim but siyumim with wine tasting and cigar sampling. Was that ok? Did they kosher up the event because there was a siyum (despite the obvious inappropiateness of holding such events during the nine days)?
Personally I hold tzedukah organizations liable for their fund raising tactics. I don’t donate to organizations who have a promoter taking a huge chunk of my tzedakah money, or to organizations that throw gluttonous fundraisers
Mentsch – I’m not trying to convince you to hold my opinion. I’m also on the fence about it myself, as I said “might”.
I’m not defending orgs like you mentioned. The ones I worked on had haskamos and participation from some local Rabonim, were indeed elaborate and costly but not any more so than a top of the line fundraising dinner that is held in a banquet hall or shul hall like so many are, and most importantly I saw (and was responsible for budgeting) how the money raised was used and how it impacted Jewish life and Torah learning for individuals whose lives were changed.
I’ve never worked for an organization that outsourced fundraising to commissioned promoters.
As an aside, as to “gluttonous” fundraisers, Where I lived when working on these events, there is no charitable receipt for the portion of the event that constitutes a “value advantage” for the participant. This means that an event that charges $200 but costs $120 per person for food, drink, golf, fishing boat, etc. will generate an $80 charitable receipt.
Where I work and raise funds now, there is a significant proportion of the major givers who expect a certain level of recognition and stewardship that includes high end events once or twice a year. (And by high end I mean expensive but not ridiculous) The organization I work for is not in a position to jeopardize these gifts, but on the other hand we don’t use general funds to pay for them either. Either there is separate corporate sponsorship of the event, or the participants pay a couvert for the “value advantage” described above.
This seems to me to be appropriate.
yichusdik
It’s a question that I ask myself all the time
What is appropriate fundraising? I am also on the fence
I read an article a year ago about the top 10 worst (non jewish) charities. All had commissions/expenses of 95%, meaning only 5% of each dollar went to the advertised charity.
when the ceo of one of the charities was asked to justify his fundraising tactics, he responded “what can i do, it’s what we need to do to stay competitive and I see the good the money does”
But here is the thing
I have found that almost every “famous” charity out there has an equal that uses the money in a similar manner with far less expenses. Mostly because they are staffed by volunteers.
As a charity becomes “successful” it’s budget, paid staff grows, which feeds the need for expensive advertising and fundraisers (often becoming a family or community business).
Ideally every charity should close its doors after a decade or two only to be restarted by well meaning volunteers
Our direct expense to fundraising ratio where I currently work is about 12-13%. We work on a tight budget. We have a transparent process that is not only mandated to report to the CRA (our IRS) but also to the board and community members. When we need to spend money, we do, but no one is getting rich working here and we are always working to raise more to meet more needs.
If it wasn’t broth to the rabunims attention they probably don’t know. I just heard it for the first time. Besides lets not blame rabunim for everything thats going wrong. They don’t have that power you wished they had.
I’m sure they’re very happy to have this free advertising.
which part bothers you the most?
1. kumzitz
2. gourmet food
3. boat
Signed up. I’m glad the world has all you sad people to balance us happy people.
Under whose hechsher is the food?
If you really cared, you’d be on the OU’s and every hashgacha’s email list. Since you aren’t, you don’t care about kashrus so you can never complain.
Why do you think I should be on the email list of an organization which you don’t consider reliable?
BTW, did you know that when you google “OU kashrus reliable”, your thread is listed first?
Lipas music is pure goyish music with the words changed over to jewish & is ruining the ruchnius in klal yisroel & their children.
So is the internet, but I notice you’re here anyway.
Lipas music is pure goyish music with the words changed over to jewish & is ruining the ruchnius in klal yisroel & their children. how far away are they from pure real goyish music once they are enhanced in rocken lipa?
I assume you hold the same thing for Mordechai Ben David, right? I assume you believe that he’s “ruining the ruchniyus of klal yisorel & their children” as well?
The Wolf
We live in a generation of gashmiyus. People love fancy trips, luxuries, etc. There’s no stopping it.
Kanoim cannot stop people from going, what they can do is pressure the sponsors into removing their sponsorship.
They could not stop people from attending Lips’s concert, but they could pressure the sponsors into removing their sponsorship without whose sponsorship the event cannot take place.
I am sure in some communities people are banned from attending the Israeli Day Parade, see how well that worked
I assume you hold the same thing for Mordechai Ben David, right? I assume you believe that he’s “ruining the ruchniyus of klal yisorel & their children” as well?
Mashiach Agent… I’m still waiting for a reply on this.
The Wolf
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