Korbanos

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  • #618125
    simcha613
    Participant

    For those who say korbanos in the morning, is there a reason the minhag developed to say Eizehu Mekoman instead of the actual parshiyos in the Torah for the different korbanos?

    #1168735
    Geordie613
    Participant

    Thank you, I had the same question.

    I seem to remember that in the Siddur Sfas Emes (The Roedelheim – classic yekkish siddur) the parshiyos, except for the tomid, are printed in smaller print or without nekudos, indicating that it is a relatively new minhag, as opposed to eizehu mekomon which is an old minhag. (When you say relatively new regarding yekkish minhogim, it means after the Mahari”l, so very early acharonim.)

    I will bl”n check it up and post again.

    #1168736
    MDG
    Participant

    I remember reading somewhere that that is the only Perek of Mishnah that does not have any Machloket. That was supposed to be a significant factor as to why it is included. I don’t remember the reason

    #1168737
    theprof1
    Participant

    there are 2 reasons for saying korbonos. one is that chazal say if you learn korbonos its like doing them. the other reason is that with korbonos you can observe torah learning. so first we say the korbonos parsha in torah and then the mishna.

    #1168738
    simcha613
    Participant

    Theprof- my question is we don’t say the parshiyos in the Torah. Yes, we say Tamid and Ketores but that’s it. Instead of saying the actual parshiyos of the Olah, Chatas, Asham, Shelamim, and Todah we say the Mishnayos instead. If I’m not mistaken, when the S”A discusses the inyan of Korbanos he discusses saying the actual parshiyos not the Mishnayos. So why do we do the Mishnayos instead?

    #1168739
    Excellence
    Participant

    The Me’am Lo’ez explains the invaluable benefit of taking the extra 10-15 mins of saying the korbanos an ketores.

    In the Drashot of the Ben Ish Chai Halachot (the blue English book) parsha Vayechi gives 13 protective benefits of saying it.

    If you say it enough times you will say it pretty smoothly. But the higher benefit is saying it slowly with intent. The Rashbi says we don’t appreciate what it can do, or we’d make a crown out of it.

    #1168740
    Geordie613
    Participant

    I have looked up the yekkish Siddur Sfas Emes (Roedelheim), and it has parshas hakiyor, parshas hatomid and parshas ketores in regular print. The braaisos of ketores are printed without nekudos, and it’s back to normal for Hashem tzevokos etc.

    So, I have no answer for the OP from this particular source.

    #1168741
    theprof1
    Participant

    SADLY TO SAY, MANY OF US DON’T GIVE ENOUGH TIME TO DAVEN WITH KAVONO OR AT LEAST SOME THOUGHT. ALL OF SHACHRIS IS IMPORTANT IN SOME WAY. BH I’M RETIRED AND CAN DAVEN WITH A MINYAN THAT DAVENS AT A DECENT SPEED SO I CAN SOMETIMES PUT SOME THOUGHT INTO IT. I ALMOST ALWAYS SAY FULL KARBONOS BOTH SHACHRIS AND MINCHA. BH.

    #1168742
    Sam2
    Participant

    We wanted to include Mishnayos and a Baraisa in the Davening so that everyone who Davens will at least say some Mikra, Mishnah, and Talmud every day.

    #1168743
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    MDG and Sam2: What the two of you have written is brought in the Sefer Taamei Haminhagim as one reason. Since we should learn Mikra, Mishna and Gemorra each day, we include all three in korbanos………and Eizehu Mekoman was chosen since it is the only Perek without any machlokes.

    #1168744
    Sam2
    Participant

    That is brought in many Achronim. I’m not sure if it’s in the Shulchan Aruch too, but it might be.

    #1168745

    should I. Wear my hat if it’s not the mi hag hamokm

    #1168746
    Geordie613
    Participant

    The Chareidi Modern Orthodox, not sure what this has to do with korbanos, but…

    Yes. This is the old minhag.

    As far as I understand and I’m not sure how long ago this was, only the Rov used to wear his tallis over his head. The tzibur all wore hats for davening, (like bochurim do now, on top of their tfilin) and talisos just from the neck down. Gradually, from the litvishe yeshivos, it spread that all married men wear their talisos over their heads. I greatly respect people who keep the old minhag (although I don’t), and you don’t see many of them any more, at least around where I live. Firstly, because the ‘more frum’ have taken on the ‘litvishe’ way, and others have stopped wearing hats in the weekday for davening.

    #1168747
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Geodie613: It was a regional issue in Europe as to what to do about hats or taleisim over the head. It is brought down that in Slabodka, R’ Yaakov wore his hat over the head because that was the minhag hamakom. See Mishna Berura 91:6 – he quotes the Pri Megadim about covering one’s head with “talis shel mitzva”.

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