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THE REASONS FOR LEARNING IN KOLLEL
The overwhelmingly most important advantage of learning in Kollel is that you are learning. Simple as that. Torah learning is the highest, greatest, most glorious form of Avodas Hashem, which will get for you the greatest share in Olam Habah possible, much much more and much much greater than any other thing you can do for Hashem, including any other type of Mitzvos. Learning Torah brings by far the greatest nachahs to Hashem, the greatest benefits to Klal Yisroel, and the greatest benefits to those who do the learning, than anything else you can possibly do.
Hands down, no contest.
That’s why we learn.
As an example: A man once came to the Chazon Ish asking him advice. He got 2 job offers, and he wants to know which to take.
The first is Kashrus administrator of the rabbanut, a position in which he is confident that he would be able to change the kashrus standards in all of Israel, causing the public to eat only kosher food. If he does not take this job, they will hire someone who does not have his standards and the public who rely on this hechsher will not eat kosher (note: I do not know what the issues with the hechsher were, or how severe).
His other choice is to be a rebbi in a yeshiva. If he does not take that job, the Yeshiva will hire a different Ben Torah, on the same level as him, so its not as if the kids are going to be less frum.
Which job should he take, he asked.
The Chazon Ish asked him, “Do you think, if you take the job as a Rebbi, that you could perhaps convince 2 of your students to learn during a Bain Hazemanim?”
“Yes,” he said. “I think I can do that.”
“Then you should know,” said the Chazon Ish, “that two kids learning Torah bain hazemanim as if it were the zman, is much more valuable to Hashem than making the entire Eretz Yisroel eat kosher!”
This is the kind of material that boys are taught in yeshiva. This is the main motivation for learning in Kollel. The situation these days in Eretz Yisroel is terrible. We need to help our brothers there. What can we do, spiritually I am talking about now, to help? Well, the Chazon Ish said that learning one single Tosfos has the power to nullify many evil decrees on Klal Yisroel. It can take any where from a few minutes to much longer to learn a Tosfos. One single Tosfos — perhaps a few minutes of Torah learning – can nullify many gezeiros against Klal Yisroel.
We say it every day; Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam. This means, say Chazal, that learning one word of Torah – one! word! – imparts more holiness than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos! The Vilna Gaon comments: So when someone learns just one page of Gemora, he covers hundreds of words, each of which gives him more Kedusha than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos. In Yeshiva, they teach this, that Torah learning – as opposed to any other form of Avodas Hashem – is by far, by very, very far, the highest and greatest act of Avodah that a person can be invovled in, and through it, one merits by far, by very very far, the greatest measure of Olam Habah; and through it, one releases, by far, by very very far, the very greatest measure of Hashem’s influence and Goodness into this world.
Nothing compares. Nothing comes close. Not Kiruv, not Tzedakah, not Hatzalah, nothing. Please note, that all those other endeavors – the Mitzvah ones – are glorious and wonderful forms of Avodas Hashem. But Torah learning is a billion times greater. All this applies to the act of learning, even if it is done by someone who is not a Talmid Chacham.
But the Talmid Chacham, even if he does not teach, even if he does not preach, is, more than anything else, the one most valuable thing to Hashem in this world. And no wonder. If one world of Torah learning can bring more kedusha into this world than a lifetime of anything else, then the very existence of the Talmid Chacham is a conduit of holiness and Hashem’s Influence into this world. The very presence of the Talmid Chacham benefits our world in ways that nothing else can.
As Rav Hutner ZT’L used to point out – every utensil in the Bais HaMikdash had some kind of Avodah done with it. Except the Aron. The Aron did nothing but exist. The Aron represents the Talmid Chachom, the container of the Torah. It does not need to do any act. Its very presence is its success. (Of course, this does not mean that a Talmid Chacham does not have to fulfill the Mitzvos. Doing Mitzvos is part of being a Talmid Chacham, because if someone does not do what he learns, then obviously his learning is not meant seriously, and is not real learning.)
But a Talmid Chacham does not have to be “employed.” The Vilna Gaon had no “job.” He was not the local Rabbi, Rosh Yeshiva, or anything. He was like the Aron Kodesh. In our days, the Chazon Ish, the Steipler, and yibd”l Rav Chaim Kanievsky had/have no “jobs”. Each are an Aron HaKodesh.
Rav Ahron Kotler ZT’L said in his hesped of the Chazon Ish, that the reason the Chazon Ish was bigger than him, was because the Chazon Ish had no yeshiva to run; he had nothing in his life except Torah. The goal of becoming a Talmid Chacham is so, so, so desirable, that everyone is encouraged to pursue it. If you cant, or wont, for whatever reason, nobody is judging you. But no question — if our goal in this world is to bring Nachas Ruach to Hashem / to accumulate merits for Olam Habah / to sanctify the world / etc etc — becoming a Talmid Chacham is by far the best way to go.
But even if you are not going to be a Talmid Chacham, being the closest you can become, is also the most desirable and glorious and highest goal for you. Learning itself is the greatest act of Avodas Hashem that can be performed in the world.
One more important point: Contrary to the belief of many, it is impossible to predict who will become a Talmid Chacham. As the Chazon Ish said, “Every student is a possible godol hador”. The Roshei Yeshiva of today were not all the ones who people thought would become the Roshei Yeshiva of today. And vice versa. Talent and intellect help, to be sure, but effort and siyata dishmaya are more important to success as a Torah scholar. Becoming a “godol” is not just for the brightest. In fact, often it is not they who attain that goal. An average student, and it has happened that also below average students, have become great Gedolim and surpassed their more talented peers. Not everybody can become the greatest Talmid Chacham in the world. But everybody can become as close to the greatest Talmid Chacham in the world that he can. Those Bnei Torah, the ones who pour their heart and soul and life into learning Hashem’s Torah, merit, every single one of them, the greatest share in Olam Habah possible.
That is the main reason people learn in Kollel. Because Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam.
There are tons more good reasons — like the effect it has on your home, on your Mitzvah performance, on your personality, on your children — all of which are excellent reasons. But the main reason is, that our goal in this world is to go higher and higher. And there is no better way to go higher than to learn.
Nothing even close.
(reposted from elsewhere)
Joseph: don’t forget to give us a summery on this migillah!
the only thing i read was the women one the rest were way to long!
Joseph, you wrote (or copied) that even a frum workplace is a bad place for a Jewish man, and included a moshol that implies that the workplace makes people crazy. In what way are Jewish women better suited for the insanity-inducing workplace than Jewish men? Does the second X chromosome protect women from becoming insane in the workplace while they work to support their husbands in kollel?
So you’re saying that if someone has to become crazy, it should be the mother & not the father, so the father can learn? But wouldn’t the childcare provider also be crazy, since she is also working (the playgroup/ childcare center/ children’s home is a workplace for her)? Personally, I’d prefer for my child’s primary care provider to be sane.
Tell me, do you really believe that working in a frum workplace makes people crazy? If so, how is this insanity manifested?
pookie: You’re better than I am. As soon as I saw the post was Joseph’s I looked at the length and just skipped down to where the comments started.
Joseph, what changed in this generation? Until now it was always considered a necessity for the mother to be home at the expense of her husband’s full time learning.
Joseph – What about this example: A man once came to the Rav asking him advice. He got 2 job offers, and he wants to know which to take.
The first is Tzniut administrator of the rabbanut, a position in which he is confident that he would be able to change the Tzniut standards in all of Israel, causing the public to only dress Tzniut. If he does not take this job, they will hire someone who does not have his standards and the public who rely on this standard will not dress Tzniut.
His other choice is to be a rebbi in a yeshiva. If he does not take that job, the Yeshiva will hire a different Ben Torah, on the same level as him, so its not as if the kids are going to be less frum.
Which job should he take, he asked.
The Rav asked him, “Do you think, if you take the job as a Rebbi, that you could perhaps convince 2 of your students to learn during a Bain Hazemanim?”
“Yes,” he said. “I think I can do that.”
“Then you should know,” said the Rav, “that two kids learning Torah bain hazemanim as if it were the zman, is much more valuable to Hashem than making the entire Eretz Yisroel dress Tzniut!”
Meh. Typical posts. He quotes from various places that say what he wants to hear, but leaves out any other views.
In this thread, he quotes R’ Hutner to support his views on kollel. Yet, he conveniently forgets that R’ Hutner said that R’ YB zt”l was one of the gedolei hador. I guess YU isn’t so bad after all, right Joseph?
this posting is getting rather insane- those weird examples that are mentioned (by cherrybim and joseph)about the two jobs make no sense at all. i don’t believe for one moment that they are true. for the rest, I did not bother reading this long megillah.
ROB- My example is definitely not true.
ames- I’m glad SOMEONE got it!
I really highly doubt the CI said what Joseph copied and pasted.
So if working is bad, who’s supporting the learning guy?
The Orchos Tzaddikim (Shar ha’ahavah) says quite clearly that one should work AND learn, and one without the other leads to destruction. I would take his word over an anonymous internet author any day.
Furthermore, until recently, people who learned all day were yechidei segulah. It took a combination of the Industrial Revolution (where agricultural workers went from 80% of the population to 2% due to advances in agriculture) and the vast wealth of the post-WWII era to create today’s kollel environment. Rav Yitzchak Nafcha held down a job, as well as Rabbi Yehoshua, Rabbi Yochanan Hasandler and others.
Baruch Hashem, the vast wealth of the post-WWII era allowed the existence of kollels, revitalizing the Jewish community and providing talmidei chahchamim who were able to be machzir atarah leyoshnah. To say that the world was devoid of Torah until now, however, is sheer folly. The way of the world (post-Gan Eden, post- midbar) is that one needs to work or have someone work for him. Be’er she’ata shoseh mimenu mayaim, al tizrok bo even. By not showing hakaras hatov to the baalei batim who allow those in learning to learn, these articles hurt, not help, the kollel cause.
Joseph
You defeat your purpose by posting such long quotes at once. I certainly didn’t read any of it (though I’m sure it is quite interesting), and probably the majority of posters who clicked on this thread also did not.
Joseph,
You could have summarized it in four words:
Learning good, work evil. 🙂
The Wolf
…and if anyone complained (as a few animals sometimes did, when no pigs or dogs were near) that they wasted time and meant a lot of standing about in the cold, the sheep were sure to silence him with a tremendous bleating of “Four legs good, two legs bad!”
— George Orwell
The Wolf
Jes curious: these your musings or quoted from somewhere?
The last dor had a mandate to rebuild the lost Torah. I think that this dor has a mandate to rebuild the true Jewish home, which is of course centered on Torah.
OK, coffee room, raise your hands on this one: how many of you know “working men” who are talmidei chachomim and mechabrei seforim? (Like my father.)
“Thing thing, what is that thing
Thing sing, that thing can sing
Song long, a long long song
Good bye thing, you sing too long”
–Dr. Suess
For there to be Kavod HaTorah those who take on the status of “full time learners” must show at least the same dilligence as those who go into law or medicine.
While some of our more prominent doctors may have slacked off during high school or undergraduate study, it is very unlikely they “slid” thru medical school.
Those who learn in Kollel full time do so only “during the pleasure of thier wives”. At any time the wife can take out the kesubah and read it to her husband and make him go off to work.
Even if someone has a large trust fund and wants to be in Kollel, but also want to be able to “slack off”, the Rosh Kollel needs to deny him full time status and insist he do something else at least part time, so as not to dilute the “profession” of Torah.
Joseph, I know you posted sources. I’m just pointing out that the internet torah you posted is only one opinion, and is not necessarily supported by other “mesorah” peirushim.
I’ve never registered to CR, although i’m always reading the posts…But after reading this topic…i had to register and thank Joseph for his amazing quotes. I’m waiting a while for such a topic at the CR….Thank you, thank you!
From Orchos Tzddikimm sha’ar ha’ahavah. In short, Work+ learning is a good thing. Ayen sham. He is a rishon. Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L’s shita is a valid one, but his kollel wasn’t like that, and many gedolim hold differently. Of course the ikkar is learning torah and mitzvos, not earning money. But both are important, thanks to the cheit of Adam Harishon. Joseph, “will” you please explain this quote that it does not disagree with your internet Torah, or are there sources who say differently from it?
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I need to team up with Jothar on this. Yes, this was the tzavaa of the post war gedolim. The original concept however was assarah batlonim. The current system has done its job, and it is nice as it is, but not sustainable. You might be zoche to bracha me’al hateva, but one may not rely on this. It is no accident that there is a shidduch crisis in the BY ranks. The concept of an eved hashem has been distorted, as has the concept of womanhood. Where is the bracha in a 20 something year old with three children in day care working her nerves thin. And the work place is not the place for a ben torah but it is kosher for a bas yisroel? I have also seen the Rambam here parsed and sound byted to support this notion. Another distortion.
Koma, a working stiff being kovea ittm.
Nobody said the Zevulun has to be an am ho’oretz.
EDITED
If people are going to post full-length books here, can they please also post the photo of the cover and all the nice pictures that come along!
joseph: i read the entire drasha, it was brilliant. you have a tremendous talent for explaining in an eloquent and orderly fashion, the shita’s of the Gedolim. chazak ve’ematz
Joseph, I read them. I don’t have questions. I know from my rabbeim and seforim that the shitos quoted here are not the only shitos. Such is mesorah. When I point this out, you willfully ignore this. Rav Aharon Kotler ZTL”s shita is not the only shita. Kollel is nice, but lifetime kollel without doing anything ,even klei kodesh, was never an option for everybody. As always, ask your LOR or rebbe, and don’t believe Internet Torah.
Am I the only one who’s curious about Joseph’s CV (and how long his kids have been in kollel and their menu this Shabbos)?
tzippi – possibly you are. I’m not curious at all. anyone else?
so we should quit our jobs and lern all day, and tell our wives to work. i’m sure we would all love to do that but its not that easy. i once heard a working person learning for 2 hrs is better than a kollel guyfor 8 hrs b/c the working guy is being more moser nefesh.
so we should not go to college go to kollel make our wives work, then when we have two children and our wives can’t work then what??? where will the money come from???
I judged it by the meforshim quoted and sourced. His explanations are all within the shita of Rav Aharon kotler ZT”L, who changed from the shita of his rebbe the Alter ZT”L in his view of kollel. There are other shitos,and other gedolim, and they have equally valid ways of explaining the gemaras. This was not the view of the Alter of Slabodka ZT”L, and he was the rebbe of Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L. Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L himself was a maggid shiur and was heavily invoved in tzorchei tzibbur. I hate to imagine he viewed himself as a failure. Furthermore, the Rambam writes that then highest level of tzedakah is to give someone a job. According to this Internet torah, it’s the worst form of achzariyus. I’ll take the rambam over the Internet Torah. Finally, chazal say “pshot nevelta beshuka ve’al tomar gavra rabba ani”, meaning if you need money, flay carcasses in the marketplace and don’t say “I’m too holy for that”. But according to this Internet torah it’s assur to work. Not everyone is on the level of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai.In fact, the gemara implies that MOST people need to work and learn (Many tried Tana debei Rabbi yishmael and were successful, some tried like Rabbi Shimon bar yochai and were not). Our generation has a special zechus in that vast sums of wealth became available, enabling people to support families in kollel. This doesn’t mean that those who need to work, or who stop learning to be involved in klei kodesh, are resha’im. Moshe Rabbeinu taught torah to klal yisroel instead of learning all day, and also was involved in dayanus. Was he a rasha too?
Internet Torah doesn’t mean a Hill of Beans. What matters is what your own Rabbeim/Rav/ Rosh Hayeshiva say. Joseph, I notice you quote internet Torah a lot, but never quote your own rabbeim/Rosh Hayeshiva/rav. I recommend asking them what they say about this Internet Torah.
Joseph, I have all the respect in the world for the people quoted. But there are 70 ways of reading the Torah, and more than 1 way of reading every peirush. You have to know what they mean, and when they apply. The Rambam worked as a doctor, so he can’t be arguing on himself. Klal Yisroel for thousands of years didn’t have kollel except for yechidei segulah. In the zman moshiach, we’ll all be in kollel (and the yetzer hara that makes people hate learning will be gone). But to say that bezman hazeh nobody should work, when the teva of the world is not like that, is clearly a distortion of the peirushim. Nisht da aza Rambam. Furthermore, he says there is no chiyuv to do anything with the learning in terms of zikui harabim or klei kodesh. Rav yisroel Salanter brings many proofs fakert. Olam chesed yibaneh, mah hu rachum, etc. Anything that promotes selfish learning without being mezakeh others is clearly a distortion as well. “Rabbaim challalim hipila- zeh mi shraui lehora’ah ve’eino moreh.” So the top maaleh is to be like Hashem- be meracheim on the briyos by teaching them torah, not by locking oneself up in the kloiz all day.
I agree with all the proofs that learning Torah is an ikkar, and work is a tafel. As Rabbeinu Yonah says in pirkei avos, lo nivra ha’adam ela lilmod Torah. but to say one should ignore his family, when the Orchos tzaddikim and the lashon that chazal were mesakein in the kesubah (“eizon, eflach, efarnes”) clearly state otherwise, has to be a distortion. It’s a tremendous maaleh if you’re cut out for it, but NOT A CHIYUV.
Of course, everything i say is “Internet torah” as well, which is why one should ask his rav/poseik/rosh hayeshiva. Joseph, all you have to do is attribute the article to take it out of the status if “internet torah”, although as it disagrees with my rabbeim and their mesorah I am free to ignore it.
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