Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Kivrei Tzaddikim/Mekomois Hakdoishim
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October 29, 2014 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #614085ChortkovParticipant
(a) What is the advantage of davening at Kivrei Tzaddikim? One cannot daven to the ??, and even if one could, that could be achieved with equal success from anywhere you are.
(b) Mekomois Hakdoshim – is there any maaleh in tefilloh in these locations? (Think Yaackov Avinu…) What is the Maaleh?
[(c) are kivrei tzaddikim mekomois hakedoshim?]
October 29, 2014 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1038608interjectionParticipantin response to (c), there are those who hold that you don’t have to wash netilas yadaim after leaving the kever of a tzaddik (unless it’s in a cemetery).
October 29, 2014 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1038609vayoel mosheMemberU kind of ask Hashem to help you on the
Merit of this tzadik and the tzadik kind of intercedes on your behalf
October 30, 2014 12:10 am at 12:10 am #1038610Little FroggieParticipant(a), (b) and (c)
Yes, yes and yes.
Obviously Kalev knew what he was doing when he detoured to pray at Meoras Hamachpelah. Or when Yaakov buried Rachel Emeinu at the roadside. Or countless of stories in Medrash and Gemarah of Torah greats going to be mispallel by Kivrei Tzaddikim.
October 30, 2014 12:36 am at 12:36 am #1038611ChortkovParticipant(a), (b) and (c)
Yes, yes and yes.
If you notice, A & B weren’t yes-or-no questions. I want to know what the maaleh is by each one.
And you only brought mekorois for a. Do you have any mekoir for b and c?
U kind of ask Hashem to help you on the
Merit of this tzadik and the tzadik kind of intercedes on your behalf
But why can this not be done anywhere? Cannot I not stand in any shul and daven b’zchus a certain tzaddik? The tzaddik’s neshama is not by his kever anyway (i think!), it’s upstairs already. So why is his kever anything special? That’s just where his guf is!
October 30, 2014 4:55 am at 4:55 am #1038612Little FroggieParticipantDunno.
But I suppose a tzaddik who’s greater in the after life than while living, has an inherent holiness in his guf too. That was the host to his holy Neshama, he worked on it his whole life, it stays holy. Apparently the close proximity to the Kever is more conducive to holiness. Again.. I dunno, just guessing. I should really leave these issues for the more learned…
October 30, 2014 5:10 am at 5:10 am #1038613HaLeiViParticipantYou don’t Daven to them to help you but you ask of them to Daven with you and for you and beseech Hakadosh Baruch Hu on your behalf.
As far as the place, the Meis has a connection to that spot. When you are there you can relate to him. Besides, even in Tefilla we see that location and direction make a difference.
October 30, 2014 6:16 am at 6:16 am #1038614Sam2ParticipantThere is a very, very minority opinion that Kohanim may enter Kivrei Tzadikim because they do not have Tumah. Presumably that’s some sort of Ma’aleh. What it is, I have no idea.
October 30, 2014 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #1038615assurnetParticipantRav Yosef Dayan ztz”l once said that learning 1 hour by the kever of a Tzaddik is the equivalent of learning 100 hours in a beit midrash. Rebbe Yehoshua ben Levi once went kever Rashbi and found Eliyahu haNavi there (the famous story where he asked when Mashiach is coming and Eliyahu said ask him yourself). Rav Tzvi Aryeh Rosenfeld was doresh on this that since Eliyahu hanavi can fly between heaven and earth and can obviously just speak to Rebbe Shimon in shemayim if need be, the fact he went through the trouble of going to his physical kever on earth shows how important it is.
From what I understand, the soul has multiple levels (Naran”chai) and I think it’s the nefesh or at least part of it that stays with the body in the kever but is connected to the rest of the soul that goes to shemayim, so that serves as the conduit. If you want an exact source for that let me know and I’ll ask around where it is on the inside.
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