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Syag
I dont think anyone remained for years either.
A case series Done by a DA Shewmon “Chronic “brain death”: meta-analysis and conceptual consequences” did yield a few cases “surviving” up to 6 months. It is rare though.
The brain as you know doesnt JUST control respiration. In other words it isnt like merely replacing a non-functioning brain with a vent solves everything. Circulatory collapse is a common problem as the brain controls vasodilation/constriction for example. And even with pressors there is so long they can help.
There have ben a few cases of pregnant brain dead women giving birth. OBviously though those cases dont involve years either.
ubiquitin – thank you for you patient answers. I think that that was my point. That although comas can last for years, brain death really can’t and there is no reason (short of money) not to let the body run its course. This obviously should be the choice of the family (when Jews/Halacha are not involved) and not the health care provider. (It was not so long ago when this WAS the case) Even tho the health care providers will discourage life support, I don’t remember ever hearing them fight so ruthlessly. I wish this family strength.
Gamnamit (I just saw your earlier reply)
What on earth are you talking about?
Sharon is not brain dead we have covered this. Now while in a permanent vegatative state sure theyve done scans to determine what if any brain function he has. He isnt brain dead I should hope they are monitoring his brain function of to detemine any progress (or loss) made he is a fully living person by (almost) every country’s definition!
I did just look up the law in Israel which was changed in 2008 and now does require some ancialry testing to confirm brain death. however these tests can be as rudimentary as transcranial doppler flow and do not require sophisticated scans per se. At any rate:
1) That is not what they were doing in Sharon’s case
2) In the US this is not the law
SYAG
It can take months though and aside from the financial issue there are other constraints, hospitals have bed shortages staff shortages etc…
I’m curious though and excuse the crassness of this question but strictly for argument’s sake you say “This obviously should be the choice of the family” who should foot the bill? The insurance company? hospital? the family?
Keep in mind this is a tad of topic. since as the law stands there is no requirnment in California to keep a brain dead person on “life support” So I’m not sure what you are sugesting the law should be changed? OR that the hospital should go “lifnim mishuras hadin”?
Syag: The reason why brain death is a hot-button issue isn’t because of money or letting the body die (L’kulai Alma) on its own. It’s about taking organs in the interim.
ubiquitin- I never said that that’s how brain death is legally determined. I said that there can be brain function that will only be detected with scans- hence the patient can be legally brain dead while in actuality still have some brain function.
ubiquitin – I wasn’t really wanting to change the law or thinking about how things should be done legally. I am just remembering that it used to be that people stayed on life support unless the families said otherwise, either on their own or through coaxing. And now that the winds have changed and people are highly discouraged from life support measures, I still find it surprising that the hospital/insurance company/lawyers/whatever are so ruthless, harsh and cold. Even feigning empathy seems to be a thing of the past.
Gamnait
first of all that is irrelevant
Secondly you have not demonstrated that by citing Sharon since as mentioned several times he is NOT brain dead
SYag
Where those in brain death cases? or persistant/permanent vegatative states?
Sam2
im not so sure about that. The biggest issue (in this case) is the emotianly taxing issue. It isnt easy taking care of a vented pateint with no hope of recovery. all the more so when the patient is legally/medically dead. Plus there is (beleive it or not) a desire on the art of the doctors/nurses not to prolong agony and pounding a helpless case or corpse is viewed as causing harm.
However once this position is staked they cant then back down.
I havent seen any mention of this child’s organs being donated.
ubiquitin- I said Sharon is not brain dead. According to American diagnostic standards though, he would have been misdiagnosed brain dead a few years ago. I don’t think a lack of pupil dilation is adequate proof that the brain is indeed dead. I did hear that the doctors tried to trick the mother into signing an organ donation form in middle of the night once.
Gamanit
No sharon has crnaial nerve reflexes according to (virtually) ANY definition Sharon is very much alive.
It isnt jut pupilary dilation as Ive mentioned in earlier post
Cranial nerves are tested at all levels of the brain stem, then an apnea test was done. These were never attempted on sharon as far as I know.
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