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Obviously, I would love to know the differences in the Mehadrin hechsherim like Badatz Eidah Charedis, Rabanaut Mehadrin, R’ Machpud, etc…, why some people hold of some Mehadrins and not others… but at the very least, why do some (or many) Ashkenazim not eat from the Badatz Beis Yosef hechsher- and is there a difference between meat with that hechsher and other food with that hechsher?
It seems to me that this question may be avak L”H. This is not the place for someone to be asking about hashgachos and for someone to answer by comparing hashgachos. It is a question that must be asked to a Rav.
If someone were to respond and say that a particular hashgacha is not good, it would be Loshon Hora since the conditions of toeles do not apply here. For one thing, there is no toeles in asking or being answered by an anonymous poster.
Amongst other things, there are different opionions, and these things also change constantly. Please ask this question this a Rav.
” why do some (or many) Ashkenazim not eat from the Badatz Beis Yosef hechsher”
cause they think or feel that it is a sefardi hechsher (which it might be) in which they are aschkenazim
Lu,
What are you talking about?
You said that “there is no toeles in asking or being answered by an anonymous poster.”
Of course there is a toeles purpose here! Unless you’re trying to say that you don’t care if fellow Jews each kosher food? Are you assuming that the OP is just asking for fun? Maybe to cause trouble? He’s trying to keep kosher!
If after 120, you meet Hashem and he says that because you ignored the OP he ended up eating trief- I hope you have some good explanations planned…
Without going into specifics of any particular hashgacha (I agree with LU)
There are differences among Sefardi and Ashkenazi psak halacha when it comes to Kashrus- one well known example is that sefardim do not rely on the leniency that having a Jew light the fire takes away the problem of bishul akum. Other issues apply to Shechita. Because of this, it is more common that an Ashkenazi can rely on a Sefardi Hechsher than vice versa. But, many ashkenazi hechsherim have taken on extra chumros and their shechita too is according to the Beis Yosef (meaning R’Yosef Karo, not the hechsher of the same name), so that Sefardim can rely on them.
That said, there are hechsherim that are considered more reliable and hechsherim that are considered less reliable, so that among both Sefardi and Ashkenazi hechsherim there will be those that everyone “holds by” and those that some people will avoid.
simcha613 – Eida Haredis seems to be the most widely held of and from what I’ve seen the most common one you will see on packaged food from a store, however I can’t recall seeing their teudah on any restaurants (does anyone here know if they even give hashgacha for eateries?)
From what I’m aware some ashkenazim don’t eat sefardi hechsherim and vice versa because of different chumros and/or kulos between them in schitah, removing the gid hanseh, etc.
When I was in Yeshiva about 8 years ago there were some rabbanim who weren’t a big fan of Beit Yosef claiming they didn’t feel comfortable with how it was run. I countered that it had Rav Ovadia’s name behind it and the customary answer I always got was, “yeah but Rav Ovadia isn’t the one checking every chicken” I thought that was a pretty weak answer as Rav Rubin also isn’t checking every chicken if you know what I mean. When I was getting married I told a rav I was inviting who teaches people for smicha in issur v’heter that the wedding hall was under Beit Yosef in case he had a problem with it and he smiled and said, “I like my Beit Yosef with salt and pepper please!”
Eidah CHareidis does give a hechsher on restaraunts. “La Casa” in Geula has badatz eidah, and if I’m not mistaken, so does Uri’s pizza.
Reuven – there are many conditions necessary in order for loshon hora to be permitted according to halacha. Those conditions are not in place here. I explained some of this in my above post. I also listed some of the conditions of Loshon Hora l’toeles in my Loshon Hora thread, although I don’t think I ever finished, and I do hope to do so when I have a chance.
Hashem is not going to ask me why I wrote my above post. If I hadn’t written it, He would ask me why I didn’t. The halacha is that if you hear someone speaking Loshon Hora and you don’t say something, you are oiver on an aveira. What answer will you have when you are asked why you didn’t say anything?
In terms of someone eating treif, that was not a concern here. None of the hashgachos mentioned are “treif”. And if the OP is concerned about eating treif, there are many reliable Rabbanim whom he can call to ask.
Simcha – I don’t know the answer to your question. What I do know is that when I returned to EY recently after being away for several years, I had to figure out which hashgachos I could eat. And since I’m living with family, that was a particularly complicated question.
I wasn’t even sure at first what Rav to ask since there are a lot of different opinions, and I had to ask a Rav who made sense for me and where I am holding Frumkeit-wise and hashkafa-wise, and who would understand my situation. First, I asked several friends what they do. These are all friends whom I trust and whose houses I eat in and who are more stringent than I am when it comes to these types of matters. I then got numbers from them of Rabbanim to ask.
What I found very interesting was exactly the point you are making. There were certain hashagachos that everyone seemed to have similar opinions on (whether that was definitely yes, definitely no, or it’s not the best but you can rely on it if you need to), but there were other hashgachos that there seemed to be very different opinions on.
I’m not sure, but I think that part of this may have had to do with different levels of knowledge regarding the hashgachos. Part of that may have had to do with the fact that these things are always changing, and part of it may have had to do with the fact that there are probably very few people who have really researched the hashgachos and know what is going on. I trusted the Rav I spoke to because I could tell from the way the conversation went that he is a very wise person and he seemed to really know what he is talking about.
assurnet – without getting into specifics about specific hashgachos, I will try to explain the issue you are talking about. This is something that I had also wondered about and looked into. It comes up with many other hashgachos besides the ones you mentioned.
There are many hashgachos that are considered problematic hashgachos even though the Rabbanim behind them are chashuve Rabbanim whom everyone holds of. The issue is that there are many hashgachos that are being given for the masses who would be eating complete treif otherwise. These hashgachos are not necessarily meant for Frum people to rely on.
There is a big difference between a Rav giving a hashgacha and the Rav preparing the food himself. He may be relying on kulos that he wouldn’t rely on in his own home because he knows he is dealing with “hamon ha’am” so he wants to make sure they are not eating out-right treif.
You have to also understand that you are not dealing with black-and-white issues here. You are dealing with mass production of food in factories run by not-Frum people, for the most part. You have no idea what is going on. There are so many mistakes that can happen. From what I understand, the idea of a hashgacha is that there was a certain level of hashgacha taking place, enough to give the food a certain level of reliability, but no one is guaranteeing that it is 100% certainly kosher. No hashgacha is 100% reliable, but some come much closer than others. It’s kind of like saying that there are some people whose houses you know you would feel comfortable eating in, some whose houses you definitely wouldn’t, and some who you would only eat in if someone would be insulted otherwise. At least, that is how I understand the process.
In otherwords, you are not judging the Rav HaMachshir necessarily. You are judging the strictness of the standards he is using to measure other people’s reliability.
Simcha613- I believe it is actually the opposite, sefardi shechita has more chumros than ashkenazi, but Ashkenazim don’t actually realize it. But again, not all sefardi heshsherim are equal, and there are some sefardim who won’t eat certain sefardi hechsherim.
There are two things one needs to know about a hechsher- a. the chumros/standards it follows, which is why certain kehillos will use a particular hechsher, while another equally frum kehilla will only use another one. and b. the reliability of that hechsher to ensure that its standards are being carried out on the scene.
I don’t want to get into details publicly, but the issue with Badatz Beit Yosef is not exclusively Sefardi vs Ashkenazi. Many Sefardi benei Torah will not eat Badatz Beit Yosef and have concerns regarding its standards.
I just want to point out that while it is true that there are those that won’t eat Beis Yosef, there are also those who say Bais Yosef is fine but they won’t eat other hashgachos that some of the people who do eat Beis Yosef will eat. And I’m only talking about Ashkenazim here, so it doesn’t have to do with Ashkenazi/Sephardi differences.
There are a wide range of opinions. For every (Mehadrin and Chareidi) hashgacha, you will find some who eat it and some who don’t but do eat the other hashagachas.
That is why you have to ask. That is also why I don’t think this is the place for such a question and why there are L”H issues involved – since it’s not a black-and-white issue and it very much depends on the Rav you ask as well as your own situation.
One of the things that impressed me about the Rav I asked was that his answer was tailor-made for me and my situation. He even told me not to repeat what he said, because it was specifically for me.
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