- This topic has 22 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 6 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Hi, I was invited to eat in at a neighbor’s house. I know he eats chalav stam and he knows I only eat chalav yisroel. Can I eat at his place if he cooks chalav yisroel for my family or are his dishes like treif for us?
Thank you!
His keilim are cholov stam.
Depends why you dont eat chalav stam.
If it is becasue of concern for tarfus (either becasue of litteral concern for treifah or chalv akum) then you shouldnt.
IF you hold it is mutar but follow a personal chumra along the lines of “baal nefesh” then you can decide where to draw the line. Be makpid on keilim completly, only when ben yomo, or never.
If you arent sure why you avoid it, you can eat.
If you arent sure why you avoid it, you can eat.
Incorrect. Just because someone isn’t sure doesn’t give license to eat. His posek’s reasoning for not eating cholov stam, even if he isn’t aware of the reasoning, may well be because he rules it to be cholov akum.
I can’t understand posing a question that should be asked of one’s Rav here on the forum. Would the inquirer eat cholev stam in a restaurant?
yaakov
No worries I’ll help you understand. We all pasken “sheilos” all the time. The difference between the most people and a rav is where there knowledge ends. For that matter your Rav presumably has Rav that he asks when a question posed is out of his comfort zone.
For example If I ask you “what bracha do I make on an apple?” I assume you feel comfortable answering and won’t say “ask a Rav”
Say I keep asking:
“baked apple?”
“baked apple with ice cream?”
“Apple cake”
“what if eaten during meal”
etc etc
At some point the question is above your “paygrade” and youll say ask a Rav. And that is appropriate but not every question needs a Rav per se.
Taken a step further, there are questions well above youre Rav’s paygrade such as complicated End-of -life issues, that are above HIS “paygrade” and he will ask his Rav.
The only question that remains is where the chalv-stam question posed falls in the scale. I feel comfortable answering. OF course the poster is free to ask his Rav, and I am not insulted if he doesnt want to listen to anonymous poster in an online forum.
Hope you understand (even if you disagree)
Well, why don’t you eat chalav stam, is it bec. you consider yourself a baal nefesh or you hold like Rav Yakkov Breisch that the heter of chalav stam is:
?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????, ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?????
Here, in 3rd world countries
If you live in a third world country where the government cannot or does not adequately guarantee that the milk presented as cow’s milk is actually cow’s milk, then I believe all would agree that (what we, today, call) CY is an actual bona fide requirement. No?
The Wolf
Not if the products are imported from the U.S.
“I can’t understand posing a question that should be asked of one’s Rav here on the forum.”
Come on, this is about stirring the pot, not about looking for a response to a halachic inquiry!
Not if the products are imported from the U.S.
Fair enough. I didn’t consider the possibility.
The Wolf
If you live in a third world country where the government cannot or does not adequately guarantee that the milk presented as cow’s milk is actually cow’s milk, then I believe all would agree that (what we, today, call) CY is an actual bona fide requirement. No?
Shouldn’t powdered milk be allowed still (if you follow those who hold powdered milk does not need to be cy)?
It’s hard to know if the Har Tzvi would be mattir l’maaseh in such a case.
I think Rav Frank tz”l was saying (I never really looked into it, so correct me if I am wrong) that since there is no gezeirah on powdered milk, you don’t need a Jew to watch it. But you still need to make sure it is kosher, so government regulations (or maybe even in a country where there are basically no non-kosher animals) we can assume it is from a cow. Rav Moshe tz”l held that government regulation in America is strong enough to actually make it like a Jew watched it. (Anan Sahadi) So it seems that Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank tz”l argued on Rav Moshe’s blanket heter since he only allows one to rely on regulation when one can reasonably assume it is kosher and does not need Chazal’s takannha ie. the gezeirah is not in affect.
So, yes, it seems that in a country where one cannot even assume it is from a cow, it is assur.
JT, in what country are there “basically no non-kosher animals?”
JT, in what country are there “basically no non-kosher animals?”
I think he was referring to milk, In the US its almost impossible to mix cows milk with another animal milk from the time of milking until the time it gets to someones table.. If you have ever have been to a dairy farm you would see thats its impossible to put milk from a non-kosher animal in cows milk
In light of the current kashrut reality, it would be assur. Is Cholov Stam one big Cholov Scam? Yes
Over the past fifteen years, liquid Chalav stam has become possibly chalav from a triefe due to the widespread use of displaced abomasums operations that nick the intestines and other body parts. Poskim who share this view are R Elyashiv, R Kamiensky, R Rubin, R Malinowitz, and R Wosner poskin that the cholov stam milk supplies in the US and many European countries are unreliable.
You should ask your Rov and not rely on the coffee room.
In Israel, the kashrut issue is far more complex. I know of a case where a Rosh Yeshiva’s wife went with a group of seminary girls on a Shabbaton held in someone’s house.
The person told the Rosh Yeshiva’s wife “not to worry, I made sure to get you only xxxx hashgocho.”
The Rosh Yeshiva’s wife responded, “thank you, but it really wasn’t necessary. My husband told me that when you go to a Shomer Shabbos persons home, you don’t question their kashrut. We keep whatever standard we want in our home, just eat what they serve.”
The whole issue is such a source of friction, in Israel, that has divided families in some cases but creates lots of animosity in many other cases.
I also know two Chareidi families that are virtually identical Hashgofos wise, yet each won’t eat certain Hashgochos the other uses.
Hashem Yeracheim!
BarryLS1:
I also know two Chareidi families that are virtually identical Hashgofos wise, yet each won’t eat certain Hashgochos the other uses.
I agree with what you wrote, and I also know two Chareidi families that do the same thing.
The dishes are not a problem even if you hold that chalav stam is assur. See Rema Yoreh Deah 64:9.
Avi K, no. See Rama YD 115.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.