Kapparos: Chickens, Fish, or Money?

MONEY!! Thank goodness! Can’t fathom anything else.

Gosh mepal, you sound quite desperate. Can I sponsor you a free visit to the local soup kitchen? I’ll throw in a quarter to help with the MONEY issue too.

Jax very nice!

Anyway even with money the money is supposed to Be used to buy a chicken and shecht it for a poor family. What’s the big deal!

Well i am going to start telling u that love theminhag of chickens and u want to know why? it is because when i was a little girl my mother used to go to the market and buy chickens for kaparot, we fed them and kept them in the back yard for weeks and guess what I fell in love with the chickens but nevertheless the shochet used to come and made kaparot, I fell bad for the chickens but somehow I always felt cleansed and happy that my sins went to the chicken and not to me. After it got hard to do it, so my mother just called the butcher gave our names the made the shechita without our presence but it is a very strong minhag, and a beautiful one.

And if Hashem didnt want us to eat chicken or meat he would have given us the command in the Torah like everything else. There is not biggest Sedakah than providing food for the poor.

Joseph, just much neater and cleaner that way. Either way the poor get what they need for YT, so what’s the big deal? And you can save your offer to the soup kitchen for someone else. No thank you.

uh, sir, its our minhag. Not my two cents.

Thanks for your permission.

re my neat-n-clean non-lecture, it is and thats the fact. Nothing to debate about it.

money

I don’t understand this thread. The minhag of kaporos with a chicken is very old and is still encouraged in many communities. The shechitah process is no different than any other shechitah that was practiced for centuries. Many poskim including the Mechaber, were against it for various reasons. The Ramah defends it. For various reasons also, money began to be substituted and is considered an acceptable alternative. To each his own.

post: I dont see what the problem is. What do you find wrong with us telling everyone what are minhag is?

Feif: You haven’t read the quoted meforshim above for the minhug.

The anti-semites (whether Jewish or not) will find fault in kaporos no matter what.

post,

I know you might be hurt by the Mod’s comment. Please allow me to explain, so that you will realize that you are just as welcome as anyone else, albeit with a different perspective and understanding toward the CR.

I noticed your frustration in another thread(s) regarding the jokes offered in lieu of serious answers.

People generally do not use the CR as one would use Wikipedia- serious, detailed entries regarding sundry topics. Although this is a space for all to share and glean information, as well as exchange opinions, views, news, and banter, threads often segue into the most preposterous discussions, and that is all part of the “CR experience”. It is neither a scholarly work (please excuse me, all CR scholars) nor an “Ask the Expert” forum.

Sometimes, we read advice that truly reflects expertise. Sometimes, we gain serious information on cameras, Sukkah building, cooking, eye problems, weight loss, and how to become an Astronaut in seven easy lessons. We don’t EXPECT to gain the information we need, but we sometimes do, and appreciate it.

Banter, tongue in cheek jokes, tongue out of cheek jokes, corny offerings, and the ramblings of overworked minds sometimes find their way onto the threads. This is normal, par for the course, and at least as healthy as spinach.

If this forum pleases you, please join us. I have also made the mistake of assuming the culture of certain environments without having time to truly understand it. If you’re like me, you’ll get past it and enjoy.

Hope this helps.

Does anyone use fish? It there such a minhag?

We use money.

As long as the end result is Tzedaka to Aniyim, who cares what is used? Of course, with Tzaar Baali Chaim taken into account (don’t throw a live chicken or

dislocate anything 🙂

Feif Un – I couldn’t agree more; Chillel Hashem and scandal (especially for a minhag that can be done in other ways) overrides any other consideration.

Feif: Absolutely wrong.

To Feif Un, check out The World of Prayer, v. II about kaparos. I think he mentions fish too.

That said, there are some major major issues now. In the shtetl everyone went to the shochet, this was just an incidental detour in the chicken’s life. Things are very different now and there has to be some major control in how kaparos establishments are run, if only mipnei aivah, but I can think of a lot of other good reasons.

No, Joseph, I’m right. If it causes a chillul Hashem,it shouldn’t be done.

Are fish to the “Yaish Oimrim”, l’chadchila or b’dieved?

Also, why were chickens used; because they were readily available and relatively inexpensive?

In Europe, where most people were poor, the kapara chicken was usually eaten by the family that shlugged it. Maybe this was a way of insuring that everyone ate wholesome food at the erev Yom Kippur seuda.

You can put your money on that. It will continue.

That may be true… but that doesn’t make it right.

Sadly, murder and theft will continue too. (No, I don’t mean to equate kaparos with murder and theft — you know what I mean.)

The Wolf

Its right. And it will continue.

Correct, 2 separate points.

I read in an article in the Kashrus magazine (in a previous year) that the chickens from some mass Kaporos markets don’t really end up getting eaten by aniyim. That is because often they are sent to the families as is, without being plucked, soaked, salted, etc. and not in a usable form.

I am not saying that is the case with all, but this was a letter written by a kollel woman (IIRC) who wanted to bring it to the attention of the oilam.

Well here where I live all the kaparot are actually done in a private place. The community sends shojatim and they actually do give them out to many people with coupons in one of the kosher butcher stores. But maybe since the community is smaller than many communities in NY that’s how they mantain control.

yes, what do you think of potted plants?

yes, what do you think of combining tashlich and kaparos? You can shake out your pockets onto the ground, stuff the chicken with breadcrumbs, and then twirl the chicken and toss it into the river.

Also, would that still be OK if you used a fish for kaparos, since the fish might be happy to be tossed into the river?

BS”D

Most of the chilul Hashem caused by kapporos is that caused by the self styled modern Jews who cause trouble for their betters by stirring up all sorts of allegations and complaining, which in turn leads to outright mesira. They are unable to live Yiddishe lives because of their own weaknesses, and instead of improving themselves they complain about those who are stronger than they are.

The handful of poorly run kapporos locations are a drop in the bucket compared to the stink raised by PETA and their minions, who include some who are ostensibly shomrei Torah umitzvos, but who are basically “ma yoffis” assimilated Jews deep down and want to show that they, too are “orthodox” but chas vesholom do not do anything as barbaric as shlugging kapporos.

In the end, the non-Jews respect us, the ones who stand up for what we believe in. They have only contempt for those who give in to nonexistent pressure and become lukewarm in their practices while attacking those who do what Hashem wants us to do without worrying about what the goyim, be they descendants of Amalek, Yishmoel, Esav or just the grandchildren of those who stood by and watched us being slaughtered time and time again, think of us.

If it ever happens again (chas vesholom), we will see that once again the kapporos knife will land on the ma yoffis Jews first, the ones who never expected the neighbors whose standards they fell to in order to please them to land on them like a ton of bricks when the tide turns.

BS”D

Indeed, the few poorly run locations should be censured by rabbonim and askonim, who in turn should warn Yidden that moisrim come around every year to photograph kapporos and to feel free to call the community patrol should they not be able to politely get any suspicious individual to put his camera away if photographing on private property.