Kabbalah, Zohar and The ARIZAL

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  • #602820
    shmoel
    Member

    Please explain what Kabbalah is and how Kabbalah, the Zohar and the ARIZAL fit into our lives and apply today.

    #866763
    hershi
    Member

    Very relevant. Kabbala touches almost everything we do as Jews today.

    #866764
    shein
    Member

    The Litvish, Chasidish and especially the Sefardic world is infused with much kabbalah.

    #866765
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    It’s a secret.

    #866766
    shmoel
    Member

    The Zohar was authored by the Tanna Rabban Shimon bar Yochai, but was kept secret for over a thousand years, until it was finally revealed to the masses about 500 years ago.

    Zohar shouldn’t be learnt before one becomes 40 years old.

    #866767
    Czar
    Member

    Learning kabbala is not pashut.

    #866768
    Patri
    Member

    How did the Zohar pass down all the centuries until it was publicized?

    #866769
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Until 40? So the Arizal never learned Zohar Hakadosh? How about the Ramak or Reb Chaim Vittal? Actually, I don’t think anyone who actually excelled in Kabala started after 40.

    #866770
    Chacham
    Participant

    haleivi- the shach says that. so go figure

    #866771
    Sam2
    Participant

    Chacham: The Shach doesn’t say 40. The Shach says that one should wait until he is old enough and that many who learned too early died very early (a clear hint to the Ariza”l, I think). I have heard that not learning Zohar until 40 is a Cherem of the Ya’avetz in response to Sabbateanism.

    #866772
    Sam2
    Participant

    Shmoel: While we assume today that the Zohar was authored by the Tanna R’ Shimon (though there are clearly pieces that are later additions as they quote people post-R’ Shimon Bar Yochai), the actual authorship of the Zohar was a controversy from the time R’ Moshe De Leon revealed it until today. (It was a very big controversy among the Gedolim in his time; then it died down for several hundred years as everyone assumed that it was really R’ Shimon. Now the academics call the authorship into question again, though very few Gedolim agree with them.)

    #866773
    shmoel
    Member

    Sam: It was only briefly questioned for a short time by a small minority of Torah figures. The entire Torah world has long accepted its authorship by Rabban Shimon Bar Yochai. The apikorus academics have no bearing or standing on the issue.

    #866774
    Sam2
    Participant

    Shmoel: There are academics who are not Apikorsim who also question it. And, while we may not care for what they say, they do sometimes bring good Ra’ayos and we have to answer them.

    #866775
    Chacham
    Participant

    sam2 — let us not argue in metzious. the shach DOES say 40 years. see YD 246in the last line of shach sk 6 and the beer heitev in sk 3 says that also.

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9147&st=&pgnum=138

    #866776
    shmoel
    Member

    Sam: We only need to concern ourselves with Talmidei Chachomim, on the issue. Not am haratzim academics who make “historical judgements”, and other shoddy assumptions. And there stupidities in inventing “historical facts” on this (and many other) Torah issues, are pure figments of their imaginations without any Torah basis. No, they most certainly do not have an iota of any “good rayos” on this that is worthy of anything other than a hearty laugh.

    #866777
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Acedemics with an ax to grind aren’t worth anyone’s attention. Gedolim, who had Kol Hatorah with one scan, were very well aware of Leshonos that were popular.

    Like the Gemara, there are additions from later times. The Kamarna says that Raya Mehimna was written in the time of the Geonim. Many Midrashim are from then, as well.

    One example of their great Kashos is that the Zohar Hakadosh uses the term, Af Al Gav, while the Gemara uses Af Al Pi, and supposedly, Af Al Gav only shows up in later liturature. When I heard of this Kasha, the first thing that came to mind is that I bet they looked at Bavli, while Most Midrashim were written in the Yerushalmi dialect, as Rashi writes. A simple Google shows many Af Al Gavs in Yerushalmi.

    But, as pointed out, there are certain words or sentences that staryed out as someone’s marks and made it into the text. Many Gedolim have said this, including the Yaavetz and the Kamarna.

    Reb Aviad Sar Shalom, in his Emunas Chachamim, writes that even if Reb Moshe de Leon would tell him to his face that he wrote the Zohar himself, he would not believe him. There is especially no room for questions after the Arizal, who understood its full depth, testified as to its greatness and origin.

    Anyone who is lucky enough to have some insight into its depth will not comprehend the notion that a certain 14th cetury Mekubal fabricated it. It is not a tale, it is deep and profound. Tzadikim and Gedolim spent their lives understanding its wisdom and reached great levels through it.

    #866778
    Sam2
    Participant

    Chacham: Interesting. I must have forgotten that. I always found it weird that he brought the Rambam so much into his piece on Kabbalah. It’s also interesting that he mentions 40 but is pre-Shabtai Tzvi. Maybe the Minhag became like that minority opinion after Shabsai Tzvi?

    #866779
    cheftze
    Member

    Define what a “mekubal” is.

    #866780
    kingdavid
    Participant
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