Just another reason….

Agreed. Further proof the creation of the State was the biggest mistake of all. A nondenominational international State should have been created in its stead.

What the Joseph’s of the world are blind too, is that the very creation and survival of the State of Israel against all odds, and all the Nissim that take place here all the time, could not happened without Hashem.

We are in the process of Kibbutz Golios with probably a majority of Jews world-wide living in Eretz Yisroel now (or very close to it). It’s sad to see Jews learning nothing from the Torah and acting like modern day Meraglim and a lot acting like the Erev Rav.

Too make the same mistakes at every opportunity that the door of Eretz Yisroel are open to us is criminal. We are now nearing the end of history as we know it with Moshiach’s imminent arrival.

Jews have to make a choice which side in the Geulah process they are on. While there are legitimate reasons people can’t make Aliya right now, you should at-least want it.

The problems in Israel, with the government and Arabs would go away if we all chose to be here.

Worst of all, is those that speak ill of the Land and bring harm to all of Klal Yisroel.

Joseph: That is true too. There is a concept that every pasuk in the Torah represents a year in the history of the world. Go check the year corresponding to 1938/9, the effective beginning of the holocaust and you will see.

Also, check the pasukim for 1948 and 1967 and you may learn something from it, but I doubt it!

Joseph: I am sure that I am even more anti-medina than you, especially because I’ve been living here for nearly 4 decades. I’ve experienced stuff here that you haven’t heard about and can’t even imagine. I’m convinced of the evil of the zionists even more than you. Nevertheless, it’s pointless to argue today about what SHOULD have been 75 years ago. I’ve posted this idea several times in the past. Let’s agree that the majority of the Gedolei Yisroel opposed setting up a secular state led by reshoim. But that’s history. Hashem allowed it to happen, and I won’t pretend to speculate why Hashem is testing us with such a powerful nisayon. But now, we have to acknowledge that there’s no turning the clock back. There is presently nothing and no one to whom “we could go back.” To whom would you like to “go back?” The British Mandate? The Ottoman Empire? The Byzantine Empire? The Abbasids? The Omayyads? Seriously, bloodthirsty enemies are sharpening their knives at this very moment just a few miles from the borders of the state. I presume you’ve heard of ISIS, and some of their escapades. And Hamas, and all sorts of other murderous organizations. Isn’t it obvious what those butchers would try to do if there was a political and military void in E.Y? And please don’t try to tell me that you’re imagining that the frum yidden would somehow be able to negotiate some kind of “understanding” with these killers. In the 1920s, Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld zt”l did have such an idea and wanted to send Reb Yaakov Yisroel De Haan Hy”d to negotiate some kind of understanding with King Abdallah of Jordan. De Haan was subsequently assassinated by the zionists, and nothing ever came of that plan. Today, no gadol says to dismantle the medina. If you claim to be following the shita of Rav Yoelish Mi’Satmar zt”l, well, he has not been with us for about 40 years now, and no one can speak in his name or claim to know precisely what he would hold in today’s situation. We have the unanimous agreement of the gedolei E.Y. who have never suggested dismantling the medina and trying to “go back” in time or to negotiate with the Arab murderers. Perhaps you might want to tell me that yes, they are murderers, but if the “zionist entity” would cease to exist, at least some of them would change their tune and become friendly — at least toward the frum yidden. This is rampant speculation at best, and dangerous fantasizing at worst. And, as mentioned, none of the gedolei E.Y. hold of such an idea.

What can we — should we do? As stated on previous occasions, we have to spread Torah and mitzvos as much as possible. Build more mosdos, more yeshivos, girls’ schools, shuls, mikvaos, be mekarev yidden as much as possible, striving to spread the light of yiddishkeit as much as we can. While at the same time davening for the geula ha’sheleima with the coming of moshiach tzidkeinu be’meheira.

I said nothing of changing the current regime. I spoke of the historical narrative.