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How come there isn’t a movement for people to call the white house to request Pollards release from his egregious, immoral imprisonment now that there is serious traction for the release efforts wiith the recent developments? The gemara states that for the mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim, we even sell Sifrei Torah!
Public media clamor to release a U.S. Jewish citizen traitor who spied for Israel will never ever work.
Why is his imprisonment immoral? He is a convicted spy and a traitor to the US!
I’m all for letting him out — he has been in prison for 25 years — but his treatment was more lenient than that given the Rosenbergs.
because Pollard is a criminal, and has hurt the cause of American Jewry. He is not a hero as portrayed in the Israeli press. He committed a horrible crime, he had a fair trial and now he is serving a just sentence.
How horrible his crime. He gave info to an Allie who should according to treaties been privy to the info regardless
“he had a fair trial”
Pollard had no trial; he made a plea deal which the U.S. reneged on.
OK, present concrete actions to take, links to reliable petitions, etc. I’ll start.
Daven for Yohonosan ben Malka. Have him and all others falsely and unfairly imprisoned in mind next time you say the words Matir Assurim. (Coming up this mincha.)
Okay
this is a highly controversial topic. fine.
the deleted posts from both sides are piling up.
please keep this about the issues and NOT about your “assessment” of those that disagree with you.
I was told by R’ Matisyahu Salomon that if a person really did commit the crime, there is no mitzvah of pidyon shevuyim. Pollard did commit the crime.
As for his plea deal, the government did not follow it because neither did Pollard. Part of the deal was that he wasn’t allowed to speak to anyone about the case whatsoever. Shortly after, (before the sentencing,) he granted an interview. He actually violated the deal first.
<<<How horrible his crime. He gave info to an Allie who should according to treaties been privy to the info regardless>>>
He gave info to someone he THOUGHT was an ally. He had no way of knowing that his handler was an ISRAELI and not some other agent masquerading as an ISRAELI. This could have been a FALSE FLAG recruitment, where an agent of one country pretends to be an agent of another country. In that case, this act of spying could have been disastrous. The Israelis use this espionage method all the time.
What about the the Three Bocherim in Jail in Japan are guilty for smuggling drugs, should we not respect that sentence as well?
I’ll second Tzippi — daven for Yehonoson Ben Malka. In the realm of Hishtadlus, call the White House to request clemency for Jonathan Pollard as he had already served 25 years as a result of his crime — much more than any comparable conviction. The White House numbers are 202-456-1414 or 202-456-1111. In general the White House keeps track of how many calls on any given topic come in. It is a good idea to call daily, and leave a brief message every day with your request. You can also email the White House via their website – just google “contact the president”. There is a website — Jonathanpollard.org which contains information regarding Pollard’s case and ideas to help.
>>>ronsr – whatever pollard did or didn’t do, he has either way more than paid his pittance and then some<<<<
dear klach – espionage is a very serious crime, which can do very wide-ranging harm to a nation’s security. In times of war, it is punishable by the death penalty. It is a necessity that a country punish and discourage this behavior.
The crime he did was not a pittance; his punishment shouldn’t be a pittance, either.
What next? Shall we redeem Bernie Madoff? He’s sentenced to 150 years!
klach: “the fact that pretty much all sects of judiasm came out in support of the efforts to free Pollard seems to maybe indicate that there is a BIG, HUGE mitzvah here.”
Is that altz “poyk chazi mai d’ama avid”?
I don’t have a feeling one way or another about this as I never spoke to my Rebbe about it. Just saying your argument is a little disingenuous.
For those of you who feel “he got was he deserved” for committing a crime, here is a posting of other convicted spies and their sentences. Jonathan Pollard was convicted of 1 count of passing information to an ally. He is the ONLY person in this history of the US with a conviction of life for spying for an ally — the average conviction is 2 – 4 years!!! Even those convicted of spying for enemy countries generally receive significantly shorter sentences (about 15 — 20 years). This chart is an eye opener: http://www.jonathanpollard.org/sentences.htm
If a Muslim was convicted of spying for Saudi Arabia (also a US ally), would you demand life in prison for him?
“He gave info to an Allie who should according to treaties been privy to the info regardless “
Nope. The US does not have mutual defense treaties with Israel. Furthermore, Pollard was not authorized to release such information to anyone.
“he made a plea deal which the U.S. reneged on.”
Nope. He and his ex-wife violated the terms of the plea deal by giving interviews without permssion. Prosecutors and judges are not lenient with people who violate plea agreements.
“such blatant miscarriage of justice and religous discrimination”
Nope. There is no evidence of religious discrimination here. John Walker has been in prison longer than Pollard.
“present concrete actions to take”
Have him fill out applications for parole and clemency. He has been eligible for parole for 15 years but has never applied.
“free an ally’s agent who did nothing whatsoever harmful to the US”
You do not know that. None of us know what Pollard sold to Israel, or what Israel did with the information.
“if pollard was a black he wouldve been freed a long time ago by all the black activists”
You have no evidence of that. How many African Americans have been convicted of espionage?
” bush didn’t free pollard either”
Nor did Reagan or the first Bush.
“When the punishment is grossly unproprtional to the crime”
Is it really unproportional? Walker, Ames, and Hanssen also got life sentences. Walker has been in prison longer than Pollard. And the Rosenbergs were executed after having been convicted of spying for a then-ally.
“much more than any comparable conviction”
As I showed above, this statement is a lie. Why do we have to lie?
“In times of war, it is punishable by the death penalty.”
Or not in times of war. See the Rosenbergs. Pollard got off easy compared to them.
” He is the ONLY person in this history of the US with a conviction of life for spying for an ally “
Highly disingenuous. The Rosenbergs were executed for spying for an ally. And Israel technically was not an ally but a neutral country as the US does not have a formal mutual defense treaty with it.
The poor quality of the arguments used here show why Pollard is still in prison and will likely remain so.
One more comment:
“why are all of the roshei yeshiva and gedolim [who have shaychos] staunchily anti-democrat”
First of all, this is not true; Rabbi Genack of YU is a staunch Democrat who campaigned for Sen. Clinton. There are other counterexamples.
Second, it should be pointed out that there is NO reason for Obama to release Pollard if we are going to continue the terrible vitriol against him — and other Democrats — in forums such as this.
Everyone should read the article by Edwin Black entitled, “Why Jonathan Pollard is Still in Prison”. While it was written in 2002, nothing has appeared since that would change any of the things discussed in the article. It can be found via a quick Google search.
YWN editors might want to see if they can get permission to republish it — or, even better, ask the author to update it for publication here. Lack of information, or promulgating things that aren’t factual, will not get Pollard out of prison.
dear Feif Un: your arguments are extremely sharp today!
Feif un — actually in the mid 1990’s a US Naval Commander, Lcdr. Michael Schwartz (not Jewish, despite the name!) was indicted on charges of passing classified information to Saudi Arabia. He confessed and cooperated with investigators just like Jonathan Pollard. His final punishment after the various deals (and some pressure from the Saudi government) — a dishonorable discharge from the Navy, resulting in the loss of his pension and benefits, etc. No jail time whatsoever.
Mohammad Rezo Alavi, an Iranian born naturalized US citizen who worked in the Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station was convicted in 2008 of bringing classified software from the nuclear plant in which he worked to IRAN (!)was convicted to 15 months in prison. The judge stated that although his actions could potential cause harm to the US, there is no evidence that harm has already occurred, and therefore he could not be tried with treason.
Hassan Abu-Jihaad, a convert to Islam was convicted in 2008 of passing military secrets to an Al-Quaida connected terror group in England, and was sentenced to 10 years. (This in the middle of the US “war on terror”)
Check out the link on my previous post for numerous other such examples, including spies for enemy countries such as Cuba, the Soviet Union, North Korea, etc.
charliehall, have you spoken to Mr. Pollard yourself ever and asked him all the facts? Have you spoken to his attorney’s?
I have.
I visited Pollard last winter, and will be going again shortly.
Op-Ed: If I Forget Thee… Tears in North Carolina (Visiting Jonathan Pollard)
Your dead wrong on 99.99% of the items you say, and the person who wrote the book is dead wrong as well.
Perhaps its would pay do do some independant research, and not rely on others.
How is it possible for him to be a grandson or a great grandson?
Do you know when the Gaon was Niftar?
Didn’t understand your question.
My apologies.
He’s a direct descendant. (An Einikle of the Gaon)
There is spying, and then there is spying done by a Jew on behalf of a Jewish nation. And this spying has never been matched by anyone, ever. And there is a difference of an enemy spying against an enemy (it’s expected) and a “friend” spying, which is much worse.
If and when Pollard gets out, it will cost all of us and Israel dearly.
And when are we starting our campaign for the lastest “I was duped” fellow from Israel who smuggled drugs into Spain? With all this wolf crying, what’s going to happen when it’s for real?
When are we going to learn that the world takes Jewish crime very seriously and holds us to a much higher standard than the ordinary ben nachor. There is no rachmanis. Frum crime has cost our community many $millions in “pidyon shvuyim”, money which should be going to yeshivos and our poor.
Bernie Madoff was duped by his investors!
>>> And this spying has never been matched by anyone, ever. And there is a difference of an enemy spying against an enemy (it’s expected) and a “friend” spying, which is much worse.<<<
Pollard did not know for sure he was spying for the Israelis. His handlers said they were Israeli, but they could have been, say, Russians pretending to be Israelis.
This is the problem with “friendly nation” spying. It can be, and frequently is, used by hostile nations to dupe unwitting spies.
Charliehall – I used the phrase “an ally” because that is the law under which he was convicted — there is a legal difference between passing information to a country considered “friendly” vs. “unfriendly” — I did not mean to imply there was any formal alliance between the two countries.
That being said, I stand by my statements “more than any comparable conviction”. Your examples of Walker, Ames, and Hansen can not be considered comparable by any rational examination of the convictions. First of all, they all spied for the Soviets during a period when the USSR was considered “unfriendly” — a huge,initial difference in the conviction. Walker let a spy ring for the Soviets for close to 30 years at the hight of the cold war — many consider it the most damaging Soviet spying in history! Although it is true that we do not know what information Pollard passed on, it is pretty inconceivable that it was to this extent — and it certainly was for nowhere near that amount of time. Additionally, Walker’s plea bargain agreed to life in prison for him, in exchange for leniency for his son, who was also involved (and who received 25 years). Ames and Hansen, who also both committed espionage over long periods of time both “outed” US intelligence sources to the Soviets, directly resulting in the execution of top US informants. To say that these are “comparable” crimes, is at best “highly disingenuous”, and I would say borders on “a lie.”
As for the Rosenbergs, a large number of historians today believe their punishment was unreasonable, and a miscarriage of justice, so it is hard to understand why you keep bringing them up as an example. However, this case still does not change the accuracy of my statement that ” He is the ONLY person in this history of the US with a conviction of life for spying for an ally “. The Rosenbergs were (rightly or wrongly) convicted of espionage (a highly unusual charge to be leveled against civilians, BTW), and therefore were in a different sentencing category altogether. Pollard was convicted of one count of passing classified information to an ally, without intent to harm the United States. And as I mentioned earlier, he remains to only person with a conviction under this law to receive any such sentence.
Just to be clear — I am not trying to say Pollard was innocent or in any way justified. I am simply saying that there is certainly much room to request clemency in this case, after Pollard has already received a severe punishment of 25 years,even from the perspective of straight justice.
“the bochurim in japan were unwittingly doped into smuggling drugs”
They claim that they thought they were smuggling antiquities. I believe them totally.
The problem is, that is also a crime — and also asur halchically. See Bava Kamma 113, which they apparently were never taught.
But why does one need to have learned Bava Kamma in order to know that smuggling is wrong? That should be a natural thing for anyone with decent midot to understand!
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