Joining Litvishe

Moshe Rabbeinu did not wear a tie, a suit, a bekeshe or a fedora. Rebbe Akiva and Rashi did not dress like Rav Moshe. Bnei torah dress with a certain kavod, a respectability. Some communities maintain a stricter adherence to older modes of dress, some are more up to date in their modes of dress. But let’s be real – few communities can date their mode of dress to the rishonim – and these are mostly the sefardim, no the Asheke/Chassidim.

The idea of bochrim shaving is not new. Look at pictures of the yeshivos before the war. Bochrim in the Lita and many in Poland did not have beards or long peiyos. They generally wore suits and fedoras, and most were colorful – not just black. Ties are not new – you see them in the video of the Chafets Chaim.

Times change and styles change. Not a reason for machlokes.

Again, Lit, your not disputing my point. You’re simply discussing to what extent it occurred, not whether it occurred.

Nowhere did I state that there weren’t other Oberlanders who moved towards the Litvish/Yeshivish world.

So tell me, Lit, between those that moved towards Chasidism and those that moved towards the Litvish world, how many are left — especially among the younger generation — that retain the original purely Oberland hashkafa? You know, their havara (which was similar to the Chasidims), Nusach Ashkenaz (like the Litvish) and their other aspects and minhagim.

You could say the same about the Yekkes too, btw. Instead of moving towards Chasidism and to a lesser extent Litvishism like the Oberlanders, the Yekkes mostly melted into the Litvish/Yeshivish world while another contingent (smaller than the former) melted into the MO world. Yes, those that melted away oftentimes still hold on to some shrayim of Yekkishkeit, like wearing a Talis starting by their Bar Mitzvah.

And then there’s the few left over who still stick with the original Yekke/RSRH/Breuer’s minhagim/kehilla.

And like your complaint that the current Vienner Rov made Vien too Chasidish, there are those in Khal Adas Jeshurun who complain that Rav Shimon Schwab zt’l made KAJ too Yeshivish/Litvish.

Gaon: How does being a simple erlich Ashkenazic Jew these days fly less than being Chasidic?

Gaon, your point is noted but that is a separate discussion than what we’re talking about. And there’s answers to your point. Your point would be no different than regarding the first Chasidim when they went to Nusach Sefard. And they have answers justifying it. There’s nothing particularly unique in this regard with the Oberlanders who became Chasidim.

The discussion here is about changing the mesorah, minhagim and hashkafas from your father and grandfathers mesorah. In that regard, the Oberlanders who became Chasidim are no different than the Yekkes who became Litvaks.

“It was much easier to trim if anything.”

Yet the Chofetz Chaim writes explicitly in Tiferes Adam that the custom is not to allow any type of utensil to cut to shorten the beard and that since that was the accepted minhag yisroel it has the force of a prohibition.

My mesorah is when the name Haman is said – to bang with my hand on the table. Yes, I am a Hand Banger.

Lately I am thinking of joining the Foot Stompers. They are so cool and I think it would be nice to be one of them.

I know it means breaking from my mesorah and there are halachic issues with Foot Stompers (being mevazeh the mitzvah by using your feet!).

Many Gedolim even consider Foot Stompers as Ovdei Avoda Zara because Aravim bowed to the dust on their feet!

Besides, the Foot Stompers also do a Hoicha Kedusha at mincha, but the Hand Bangers don’t sleep in the Sukkah! I am unsure about Gebrokts or kitniyos or views on Moshiach.

– so is there a problem leaving my mesorah to join the Foot Stompers?

I’m 100% fine with saying we’re meikel on beards while Chabad is machmir.

So, 2 questions: What more do you want from us? Is there any topic where you’re willing to admit to being more meikel, or do you have to redefine everything such that you’re always the machmir one?

It’s interesting that when it comes to Ashkenazim, a lot of the differences in customs are things that are chitzoni like type of hat (or presence of hat), type of peyos, beard or no beard, type of kipa, etc. Why is that? Why is the outside appearance the ikar?

Yabia Omer, The Sefer Hachinuch says אדם נפעל כפי פעולותיו, a person is influenced through his actions. The outside behavior influences his inner thinking.

RebbetzinG,

No need to defend R’ Yaakov
Shulchan Aruch was never the be all and end all for old Litvishe Rabbanim.
cf. Bach intro.
Since when has it been
the be all and end all for Chabad?! irony

He is content with your intestinal perturbations

Lit: And the Sefardic derech is chopped liver?