Joining Chabad

ncb could you elaborate?
The different minhogim between other chassidim and chabad
And why only chasam sofar or rama?

nonpolitical: I would really like to respond to your comments, but since you didn’t say anything yet I guess I’ll need to wait. Sigh…..

“If you don’t like the way you grew up, you could tweak it a little, as long as you stay faithful to Halakha.” – Rabbi Benzion Klatzko / Good examples of Halakhos that they don’t follow would be: Not eating before Davening, caring about Sof Zman Tefilla, Learning Mussar- or ANYTHING that isn’t Chassidus (and yes I know that’s a minority, but they’re very vocal, just like Meshichists), and being careful with the learning and teaching of Kabbalah. If you follow Halakha, you should be fine.

Just as each shevet had their own shaar and nusach hatefilloh, and for those who did not know their shevet there was a nusach hakoleil, which is the nusach of the Arizal as given to us by the Alter Rebbe, so too there is a derech hakoleil in Yiddishkeit which is appropriate for each and every Yid (even though a few yechidei seguloh might recognize their shoresh haneshomo and have a derech which is appropriate for them specifically, but not for others, these are few and far between). This derech is the derech of the Baal Shem Tov, as further elucidated by his primary talmid the Mezeritcher Maggid, and continuing through the doiros from Rabboiseinu Nesieinu until and including Kevod Kedushas Admor the Rebbe edited. This it is appropriate for each and every Yid to spend time studying and internalizing Chassidus Chabad, and being miskasher to the Nossi Hador, the Rebbe. Each Yid can do this while maintaining the minhogim and piskei halocho followed in his kreiz, as the Rebbe told many many people who came to Him from other kreizen, yet if he chooses he can also make an informed decision to adopt minhogei upiskei Chabad, as we see throughout the doiros that people chose to follow new kinhogim and paskened differently al pi klolei hapsak, ve’ein loi ledayon elo ma sheeinov roiois.

“Not eating before Davening, caring about Sof Zman Tefilla, Learning Mussar- or ANYTHING that isn’t Chassidus”

Say what? Such utter tripe! In fact, most of what we learn inbChabad Yeshivos isn’t Chassidus.

eating before shachris
Orach Chaim 89:3 and 4
one whose hunger or thirst would affect his ability to concentrate on his prayers. the rambam explicitly states that one who is hungry and feels that he will not be able to concentrate should eat before praying

So, eating before praying is not unique to Chabad – as demonstrated above, it is normative Jewish law. Nevertheless, it is more prevalent in Chabad because in Chabad it is traditional to study chassidic teachings before the morning prayers,
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seudas shlishis
Minhag Chabad is to make sure to taste something for Shalosh Seudos, they don’t wash for bread because of the Posuk “Hayom Lo”.

What this means is as follows: The Gemarah in Shabbos learns out the obligation to eat 3 meals of Shabbos from the following Posuk: “And Moshe said, eat [the Monn] today (Hayom), because today (Hayom) is a Shabbos for Hashem, today you will not (Hayom Lo) find [the Monn] in the field”. Since the Pasuk says the word “Hayom” 3 times (when speaking about the Monn which served them as bread), we learn that one must eat 3 meals on Shabbos.

Based on the words of Rabbeinu Bechayei the Tzemach Tzedek rules (Piskei Dinim Chiddushim on Rabbeinu Yerucham p. 357) that since this meal is learned from the words “Hayom Lo”, unlike the first two meals which are learned from the word “Hayom”, we don’t need to eat bread for Shalosh Seudos, unlike the first two meals
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davening late
nothing to do with chabad, sorry.
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not Learning Mussar- or ANYTHING that isn’t Chassidus
where did you got such nonsense from

Pointing out serious issues with a group isn’t sinas chinam, the same way the pointing out serious issues with Messianic Judaism isn;t hatred. In fact, most Lubavitchers today are tinokos shenishbu, unable to see beyond the cult they were born into, and unable to read the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and realize how many are being violated regularly. I love them all, even as I am pained by their behavior. They are very similar to Lev Tahor followers or followers of Eliezer Berland.

you, however, are able to look at the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and see for yourself that
1. Hashem alone runs the world, not in partnership with any Rebbe
2. Hashem alone lives forever
3. Hashem has no physical form, so you can’t say atzmus melubash baguf
4. You are only allowed to Daven to Hashem, nobody else
5. If a person claiming to be moshiach dies, that’s it for his candidacy. Quoting gemaras about Yaakov Avinu lo meis or similar doesn’t change the fact that in metzius, the Rebbe was niftar and got buried 25 years ago.
6. If someone claims to be a navi and makes multiple false prophecies about when moshiach is coming (a good prophecy), then that person is a navi sheker. Not hatred, halacha.

Like I said, they have forced and krum terutzim, and can fool regular people. But that’s why we have gedolim, who can tell you not to listen to forced and krum teirutzim. That’s why you need to listen to mesorah. There’s a reason the Gra refused to meet with the Baal Hatanya.
Don’t listen to me, maybe I’m just a krum snag hater. Listen to your gedolim, follow your mesorah.

Lernr,
Based pn your logic about “treif meat” are you makpid to eat ONLY Beis Yosef shchita or typical Glatt out there is good enough?

For the record there’s chabad non-Lubavitch that you can get into, eg the mesorah of the Rogatchover , ”
For the record the Ragatchover had the same mesorah as all Chabad had only he chose a diff rebbe. He did go to the Tzemach Tzedek and then to the Kapuster.

Asides that, Rav Chaim of Brisk was very close with the Rashab as well. So was a Rav Itzele of Volozhin with the Tzemach..

@LerntminTayrah, actually, the reason that the GR”A didn’t want to meet with the Ba’al Ha’Tanya is that he put them under Cherem, why would he violate is own Cherem?

“Lo Sochlu Al HaDam”-Parshas Kedoshim 19:26. The Gemara in Berachos 10a and Sanhedrin 63a interpret this to mean not to eat before Davening. And yes, @Anyusernameopen?, while there is a heter Beshaas Hatchak, aren’t you the ones who are supposed to go “Beyond the letter of the law”? A.K.A. “Chassidim”? Also, I didn’t mean that you don’t learn ANYTHING besides Chassidus, but rather that you have COMPLETELY done away with any Mussar whatsoever. And you’re right, Doing away with Sof Zman Tefilla isn’t exclusive to Chabad, but rather Chassidus as a whole. (And then you still wonder why you were put under Cherem, when the Rambam clearly Paskens in Hilchos Talmud Torah, that anyone who is Mevazeh Talmidei Chachamim needs to be put under Cherem.)

Achilas kava ? Where’d you see or hear of such a thing.
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Lo sochlu al hadam
Do you follow gemora or a clear psak shulchan aruch that its mutar?
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anyone who is Mevazeh Talmidei Chachamim.
When did this happen

Also did you ever hear why the vilna goan put the them in cherem? I’ll tell you a secret it had to do with him being told lashon horo

Another point I’m sure you heard: that the misnagdim mosered on the Baal hatanya a false libel which ended up with the Baal hatanya being arrested – does this also have to do with claiming that someone was mevaze talmidei chachomim?
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It’s a Chabad chiddush that you should for some reason avoid bread like it’s some kind of issur

Are we talking abt halacha or kabala
But don’t say that its ageinst halacha
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Again you guys really need to learn a bit more before you say something against someone else

“Are we talking abt halacha or kabala
But don’t say that its ageinst halacha”
Again, you’re using the exact same line of defense as the other guy. The topic is not whether or not you can be yotzei without bread. The topic is that you have a minhag to actively avoid bread. And, yes, it is halachically more l’hatchillah to use bread. You took the b’dieved and made it l’hatchillah and took the l’hatchillah and made it assur (for no reason). Should any rabbi be able to go and do that to the mesora?

“Achilas kava ? Where’d you see or hear of such a thing.”
Are you asking me what it means or when I’ve seen Lubavitchers do it? If the latter, are you really going to tell me you’ve never seen Lubavitchers eat a shiur of mezonos before shachris? I’ve even heard of them doing bagels, although I admit I’ve never seen that personally.

@ NCB

Your perseverance is admirable.

@Anyusernameopen?, “why the Vilna Gaon put them in cherem….him being told lashon horo”, don’t you think that maybe, just maybe, THE GAON had Ruach Hakodesh? “Anyone who is Mevazeh Talmidei Chachaimim. When did this happen?” Uh, like right when you guys started. Read any literature on this matter, and you will see that they belittled Torah Scholars and Scholarship. It was written in the Vilna Cherem (1772), and I quote “They belittle the study of the Torah, and repeatedly claim that one should not study much, nor deeply regret one’s transgressions.” Also, “Chabad may not learn Mussar as a subject but Chassidus is full of mussar albeit a diff. style then what you’re used to.” Mesorah, much?

As I said he was told lashon hara
Why should I assume he had ruach hakodesh if it’s written that the only reason why he made the charem was because of what he heard – which was a lot of lashon hara – look it up

Dont you yourself say theres no ruach hakodesh these days?

@ncb you’re really trying hard – good job – I admire ppl that fight for what they think is right.

And btw you misunderstood the halacha/kabala thing which I didnt explain
But it’s not againsthalacha or kabala what is done
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Achilas kava
I think you were also told a lot of lashon hara abt chabad
There may be a few that do eat but that you have in every group, nothing to do with chabad

Anyusernameopen,
before you say anything about the Vilna Gaon and his lack of understand, you MUST be very careful for your Olam HaBa. His main student said when he dies that he was 100 days from being on the level of RITVA. If you do not understand the greatness of that statement, please learn Shas a few times with Rashi and Tos without Artscroll.

@mm
Btw he was just banned from entering the UK because hes a radical… No proofs from him. – and he prob Holds your not jewish…. Look him up he claims only 1 million jews died in the holocust

I’ll answer the other part later – that question was one of the first questions ever asked about chabad

The Shalishudis thing is such a moot argument. I eat probably 4 seudos every Shabbos.
1 by night, one before shachris, one after shachris in shul, and one at home.

LerntminTayrah
“In fact, most Lubavitchers today are tinokos shenishbu, unable to see beyond the cult they were born into, and unable to read the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and realize how many are being violated regularly. ”

So if your not a dinok shenishbu
Please explain all the עיקרי האמונה and why Chabad violates them.

“1. Hashem alone runs the world, not in partnership with any Rebbe”

Agreed, but what does it mean Hashem runs the world? How does השגחה פרטית work with this that we have בחירה חופשית?

And btw we/yiddin are a shutif with a Hashem in creating the world, by us doing mitzvos we become a shutif with Hashem, (I forgot the exact loshon hamedrish)

Please explain.

“2. Hashem alone lives forever.”

Don’t think it’s the right way of butting it, Hashem is מחויב המציאות, he never had a תחילה to have a סוף. So it’s not really fit to say that on Hashem.

“3. Hashem has no physical form, so you can’t say atzmus melubash baguf”

No person and כ”ש someone that learns chassidus would ever say that, because עצמות is impossible to be מתלבש in פרטים because כל עצם בלתי מתחלק, so how would that make sense that it’s mislabesh in a guff, אלא מאי, you should find out what he meant, before coming with daynios

“4. You are only allowed to Daven to Hashem, nobody else”

100% I don’t know anyone that davens to a Rebbe, but I do know people daven by the ohel for him to be a mielitz yoisher for us.

5. If a person claiming to be moshiach dies, that’s it for his candidacy. Quoting gemaras about Yaakov Avinu lo meis or similar doesn’t change the fact that in metzius, the Rebbe was niftar and got buried 25 years ago.

Please explain what yakov avinu lo mies means, did he have a kevurah?

Learn the Gemorah, and the ein yakov thoroughly.

6. If someone claims to be a navi and makes multiple false prophecies about when moshiach is coming (a good prophecy), then that person is a navi sheker. Not hatred, halacha.

Please explain where you got this from, and what exactly did the Rebbe say.

“Like I said, they have forced and krum terutzim, and can fool regular people.”

Your personal opinion. Have you ever thought that you’re the fool?
(Especially comparing Chabad to Lev Tahor find me one godel that said that.)

“But that’s why we have gedolim, who can tell you not to listen to forced and krum teirutzim.”

Who told you and what exactly did he tell you?

I wonder why Rebbe Chaim kaniefsky had Rabbi Berel Lazarbin his office and accepted chabad chassidus seforim from him, (told his gabai to bring it to his room, so he can learn through the seforim.
Harav shtiemen told people to send thier kids to a chabad school (in Italy) and don’t make your own school.

Rabbi Lifshits spoke highly about chabad.

Rabbi Yerucham Olshin made such an effort to come from lakeood to Rubashkins chassuna, and you see him in a video dancing to Lubavitcher niginim.

And some Roshe Yeshiva (I forgot his name (the one that made a chierim against El Al a few months ago) is seen dancing with hundreds of Bochurim in a video dancing to a chabad nigun that was made in honor of the Rebbes birthday 40 years ago.

So many Rebbeim and Rebbelach came to see, and visit the Rebbe. Check the safer Chad bedorah.

I could go on and on, the point is, have you ever thought maybe chabad is not bad after all and it’s just bunch of loshin harah? or your going to call these rabbonim/Gedolim also tinoikos shinishbu, and supporting a cult??.

I don’t need you to go explain everything, my only point is, that if you have טענות, go to a respected Lubavitcher rov/mashia and ask him your questions, (if you takeh believe that you are not a hater,) instead of writing it here and black lashing an eda kidiesha

“Don’t listen to me, maybe I’m just a krum snag hater.”

Efsher takeh

“Listen to your gedolim, follow your mesorah.”
100%

That’s all I have got to say, have hatzlocha in all your endeavors.

I’ve never understood how, out of all the radical shittos held by Mizrachi, his skepticism of the 6 million number is the one that broke the camel’s back. I understand it’s wrong and offensive, but it’s not like there’s a chiyuv to to promulgate the number 6 million. YWN had a article which collected many of his statements and it made that particular comment seem pretty minor in comparison.

I don’t eat beis yosef meat ( ie “kelber glatt”, ie beis yosef chumros but also Rema chumros) because
1.Our mesorah is like the Rema
2. We currently do Hungarian glatt which only allows 2 small ririn- treif according to beis yosef but we ashkenazim have a right to our mesorah. I asked my rav if I should be makpid on “kelber glatt” and he told me no.

The old seforim do NOT talk about modern Lubavitch, as the Rebbe went further than most chassidim with violations of the 13 ikkarim. So safeik apikorsus lechumra, and stay away. Gedolim said this, not just LMT in the Coffee Room. Ask your rabbeim and your rav. I’m not your poseik, neither is anyone else here. But you can look at the 13 ikkarim yourself, and see how the kashyes are much stronger than the teirutzim.

The Rashab may have been friendly with the litvish gedolim, but was the beginning of the breakaway from the rest of klal yisroel when he came out with the idea that learning Gemara with meforshim was for galus, and his “Tomchei temimim” talmidim should focus on “chassidus” to bring geulah instead of the gemara like Litvish yeshivas did. He also put out pamphlets saying the Litvish yeshivas were full of kefira. (This is in Making of a Gadol for those who need a source) .

This led to the “Shangai” disputes over who is a ben Torah worthy of the chaluka from Rav Kalmanowitz zt”l and Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l and who should rely on the Joint Distribution Committee. Rav Aharon kotler zt”l was also bitterly attacked by Rav YY Schneerson for meeting with various reshoim to save Jews. Rav Kotler zt”l responded with “I would bow to the Pope if it saved one nail of a Jewish child”. (A Fire in His Soul)
More on this can be found in the book of Bryan Mark Rigg, “Rescued from the Reich”

As mentioned, Chabad believes that only learning chassidus can bring the geula. And I mentioned how many gedolim hold that Chabad as kept in Crown Heights is kefira or apikorsus. So as a good “zeh neheneh vezeh neheneh” compromise, you can learn Tanya on your own. So you are bringing the geula lefi Chabad but avoiding the kefira/apikorsus of Lubavitch according to the gedolim of your mesorah.

“But you can look at the 13 ikkarim yourself, and see how the kashyes are much stronger than the teirutzim.”

If you have a tayneh go explain yourself, and don’t just mock.

As mentioned, Chabad believes that only learning chassidus “can bring the geula. ”

When and where did chabad say this? You teaching me something new, I guess I’m clueless

“Rabbi Yerucham Olshin made such an effort to come from lakeood to Rubashkins chassuna, and you see him in a video dancing to Lubavitcher niginim.”

-He must be lubavitch now since he visited a wedding and “danced” to lubavitch niggunim. Just curious was everyone sitting down when suddenly he heard a lubavitch niggun and felt such an impulse to dance to it? Or was everyone dancing to that music which was playing?
I guess he should have requested a Litvishe tune to accommodate him since he was in charge of someone elses wedding right?

This is the problem with you guys, someone visits a lubavitcher or listens to a dvar Torah so you already turn them into leaving their own minhagim and seeing “the light” of chabad. Seriously so childish. How can anyone show you respect when you use it as them “admitting” that lubavitch is the way. How many lubavitchers meet with the Litvish world but the Litvaks dont publish it on every media and social outlet they can?

He also put out pamphlets saying the Litvish yeshivas were full of kefira. (This is in Making of a Gadol for those who need a source) .
more lashon hara??????
i learn new things every day
i never realized how much lashon hara goes around in your circles