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Kanoi: I am again, simply amazed at your selective retention of material. You have no problem with this:
“From Zionism shall spring forth controllers of gambling in Bucharest, Prague, and Budapest, drug dealers in Thailand, so called intelligence operatives in Central America covering for drug warlords and jails full of plain petty criminals. “
But when I show how ALL stereotypes are wrong, you jump to the defense of chareidim without criticizing what was written above!
Thank you for proving my point better than I possibly could. BTW, if the logic of this post alludes you, don’t even bother to reply.
Daniela: “OK ifti99 but that will now not be a “danger” any longer, due to the fantastic govt that was somehow put together. Now what will be next? Soldiers are unwanted in modern warfare, work hours are superfluous in our highly automated production lines. However these hours have to be paid – and not a pittance, either. Yet they will not increase productivity or GDP. Where do you plan to obtain the resources to finance all of this? The economy is already as squeezed as conceivably possible, increasing taxation might even decrease revenue (start-ups will move elsewhere). Social expenses have already been cut. Foreign investors will not rush to invest, especially if social turmoil increases. Please explain to us your plan.”
I’m not the Israeli Finance Minister. However, for a smart woman, your post is most disappointing. What is your point? That we don’t need soldiers or workers? Are you really serious?
Israel’s economy is amazingly vibrant. The growth includes areas such as agriculture, high tech, energy, textiles, finance, etc etc. How do you contribute to it?
Israel’s military is the best in the region. They have survived against all odds as a lamb among 70 wolves.
Other than take money from those who developed this economy, please explain how you are contributing to it. I am amazed at the mind gyrations some people make in order to justify not working and not serving. They are those who contribute and there are those who take.
Again, do you really think the country would be better off if every able bodied male just learned full time? Or do you just insist that every non-chareidi work in order to support your lifestyle?
I have no problem with people learning in Kollel for years, IF their family can afford to support them, or if they can somehow support themselves. I have a big problem with an entire community choosing to learn full time, while expecting all the workers to support them. Apparently, most of the country agrees with me. If not, the chareidi parties would have won the majority of seats, no?
“What is your point? That we don’t need soldiers or workers? Are you really serious?”
Yes, of course I believe in 200 years or less we will need no soldiers and no workers, no one will have to sweat their bread, let alone to spill their blood. You don’t believe that? Actually, even our nonreligious and nonjewish fellow human beings believe that (you can e.g. google “singularity”). For the time being, and keeping in mind that only a negligible fraction of the current world riches derive from actual sweat in the field or in the workshop (which is what brought down economies such as ussr a couple of decades ago, while debt-based economies such as Japan are thriving), there are more than enough volunteers for both roles, whether among nonjews (properly paid for their effort) and among jewish people.
“Again, do you really think the country would be better off if every able bodied male just learned full time?”
Yes of course. You don’t? See above. If you have nostalgia of the days it was necessary to tend to cows and plough the fields, it means you never actually did it. Oh, in the evening, people were dead tired, yet they studied.
“Israel’s economy is amazingly vibrant.”
Fantastic! I congratulate you.
“How do you contribute to it?”
AHA! There you go. Why should I contribute to it? I do not have nor want an Israeli passport. So why should I contribute? Why am I supposed to consider the medinat “my homeland”? Why should I sweat it if it disappears, as other entities have done?
Guys, get real – all of you.
WHO CARES what is happening, may happen etc. – Hashem is running the show, and all we can and must do is follow da’as Torah i.e. strengthen our Torah and mitzvos etc. and daven. Everything else – the politics; what’s happening; what could happen; what we’d do if it would happen, etc. is all thoroughly irrelevant, and is pure Bittul Torah for which we will accomplish one thing and one thing only – giving power to the Satan.
Our ko’ach is the Torah, so let’s not squander it, and waste time on petty, irrelevant subtleties that don’t help us in any way, and aderabba, can adversly affect us in the worst possible way, R”L.
The whole danger of drafting Bochurim is Bittul Torah and inability to do Mitzvos, so anyone wasting time discussing this is being phenomenally hypocritical and turning the spiritual gun on themselves and the rest of Klal Yisroel. This is a responsibility that I trust few Yidden would want attributed to them.
Hashem Ya’azor.
Daniela: “”What is your point? That we don’t need soldiers or workers? Are you really serious?”
Yes, of course I believe in 200 years or less we will need no soldiers and no workers, no one will have to sweat their bread, let alone to spill their blood. You don’t believe that? Actually, even our nonreligious and nonjewish fellow human beings believe that (you can e.g. google “singularity”). For the time being, and keeping in mind that only a negligible fraction of the current world riches derive from actual sweat in the field or in the workshop (which is what brought down economies such as ussr a couple of decades ago, while debt-based economies such as Japan are thriving), there are more than enough volunteers for both roles, whether among nonjews (properly paid for their effort) and among jewish people.”
Sure, I believe it. This same utopian vision has been sprouted for many many centuries. The last time it popped up was in the late 19th century. Roughly 20-30 years later, World War 1 broke out.
I still don’t understand your point of view. You truly want everyone to sit on their tuches and not work???
Who will pay your social benefits?
Who will pay for your electricity? You want to live in a mud hut and eat cold food? Where will you get water from?
More importantly, “Who exactly is going to defend you like in 1929 and 1936 when the Arabs decide to massacre you”? Or is your decision to repeat the holocaust?
WHO CARES what is happening, may happen etc. – Hashem is running the show, and all we can and must do is follow da’as Torah i.e. strengthen our Torah and mitzvos etc. and daven. Everything else – the politics; what’s happening; what could happen; what we’d do if it would happen, etc. is all thoroughly irrelevant, and is pure Bittul Torah for which we will accomplish one thing and one thing only – giving power to the Satan.
Unfortunately, not everyone has Bitachon.
ifti99 -“More importantly, “Who exactly is going to defend you like in 1929 and 1936 when the Arabs decide to massacre you”? Or is your decision to repeat the holocaust?”
Yes, Moshiach is coming and we will have nothing to be afraid of.
The quicker the Medina dissolves -the quicker Moshiach will come.
Your post sounds like you don’t believe in Moshiach and if that’s the correct interpretation then you are Kofer like most Zionists.
“Again, do you really think the country would be better off if every able bodied male just learned full time?”
No one is saying *everyone* should learn full-time. Only a very tiny percentage of the Israeli population learns full-time. (And they want to reduce even the tiny current percentage.)
“Apparently, most of the country agrees with me. If not, the chareidi parties would have won the majority of seats, no?”
Very silly statement. *All* the parties received far less than a majority of seats, each. Why are you aligning your hashkafas with the chiloni yesh atid?
“More importantly, “Who exactly is going to defend you like in 1929 and 1936 when the Arabs decide to massacre you”? Or is your decision to repeat the holocaust?”
The zionists triggered those massacres.
ifti99 live without electricity? in a mud hut? And since when you care so much for my retirement benefits? You don’t even care for fellow Jews in your own country. So please don’t worry for me, we try to be decent to people be them jewish or not, but if someone set out and R”L arranges a pogrom, I doubt we’d die because only people with huge merits die like that, but if that R”L happened, that would be because for reasons we can’t understand it was so decreed, not because this or that rasha decided to. On the other hand, we am uninterested in risking our life for senseless wars, especially now that the Medinat is showing its true colours: its purpose is not, as some naively told us, to protect and support Torah in EY, but it is to lure people into assimilation. Good luck to the mighty Medinat and to its brave fighters and to its vibrant economy. I am curious ifti99, is it true what Health says, that you don’t believe in Moshiach?
masmid, not sure if you noticed our gedolim took their time for commenting on this issue and did not think this is bitul zman. If you did not notice, thank you for noticing it now.
Mods, please allow this:
It is the definition of idiocy to state that the cause of Arab hatred of Jews is Zionism. It is also playing into the Jew hater’s hands. It’s a terrible shame that many of you stopped your education at third grade. You have a very dangerous viewpoint, one that can kill.
(In my head, I’m using much worse and much harsher language. Unfortunately, the tuchis kicking you deserve won’t be allowed to be posted and it’s not my job to educate you. I just hope you don’t kill yourself when you decide to take action on your misguided views.)
Health, Daniella, etc.
It’s really nice to see see things in black and white, and blame the “evil Zionists” for all the bad in Eretz Yisroel;
However do you really think that without a Jewish Government in Israel millions of Jewish immigrants including the vast vast majority of the Chareidi Families there would have been allowed to settle there??(Only a very small percentage of the Chareidim there now are decendents of people who came in the 18th century and earlier.)
Do you think countries like turkey would welcome Jewish immigrants from all over the world and give them a place to live??
Do you think in a situation like WW2 any other country would open its borders and offer citizenship to anyone who is Jewish?
Can you not see how someone could look at events like the holocaust were entire yeshivas were killed out WHILE they learned and every other country closed their borders to the escaping Jews and conclude that it is prudent to establish a place that will open its borders to all Jews and provide an Army to protect them??
LF: The zionists actually colluded and collaborated with the Nazis yms in exterminating Jews in Europe. Research zionist Kastner and his friend Adolf Eichmann yms.
“”More importantly, “Who exactly is going to defend you like in 1929 and 1936 when the Arabs decide to massacre you”? Or is your decision to repeat the holocaust?”
The zionists triggered those massacres.”
Some of the points get silier and silier. Did the Zionists trigger gezeirus tach v’tat? How about the holocaust? If you ever studied history in school (something I have my doubts on), you would know that the Christian and Moslem countries have done a bang up job of raping, pillaging and murdering Jews for hundreds of years. Now, there is finally a country that will defend our rights. A country that will deter Moslem attacks. A country that you had very little to do with building. And you malign it at every opportunity, while enjoying the umbrella of its’ religious security. Think things are better elsewhere? Try France, where wearing a yarmulke in the streets is a sakanas nephashos. Or Greece, where neo-nazis march openly. Or one of the Arab countries that hate your very existence.
Instead of hakaras hatov, you spit on Zionists. Attitudes like this led to the destruction of bayis sheni.
And to answer Daniela, yes, of course I believe in Moshiach. However, that would not prevent me from defending myself and my family if need be, rather than going like sheep to the slaughter.
Lakewood Fellow, they weren’t killed. They were learning Torah and we learned on YWN that learning Torah is the ONLY hishtadlus you need.
I don’t comprehend the churban in Europe. I suppose very few people do, if any. You seem convinced that an already established Zionist country would have averted the decree, I do not share the same certainty.
Daniella,
Do you not see a compelling argument that if many of those Yidden who were killed had had a country they could run too that would have let them in and protect them as citizens during WW2 they would have had a better chance of survival???
LF: How will the IDF stop an Iranian Nuke from killing one million in Tel Aviv?
ifti99:
“don’t even bother to reply”
That could be the best idea I’ve heard yet on this thread. I’ve said what I have to say, and I’m getting tired of going in circles.
LF:
“However do you really think that without a Jewish Government in Israel millions of Jewish immigrants including the vast vast majority of the Chareidi Families there would have been allowed to settle there??(Only a very small percentage of the Chareidim there now are decendents of people who came in the 18th century and earlier.)
Do you think countries like turkey would welcome Jewish immigrants from all over the world and give them a place to live??”
So they would’ve all gone to America. Big whoop.
“Can you not see how someone could look at events like the holocaust were entire yeshivas were killed out WHILE they learned and every other country closed their borders to the escaping Jews and conclude that it is prudent to establish a place that will open its borders to all Jews and provide an Army to protect them??”
Do you really think that the IDF would have been able to stop the Nazis? It took half the world to defeat the superpower that Germany was; a small army like the IDF wouldn’t have stood a chance. All that the existence of a Jewish State would have done is put all the Nazi’s targets in one place.
truthsharer:
“Lakewood Fellow, they weren’t killed. They were learning Torah and we learned on YWN that learning Torah is the ONLY hishtadlus you need.”
Nobody is claiming that somebody who learns is guaranteed that everything will go his way. But it definitely helps.
Torah is not the only hishtadlus you need. However, it does give those who learn it tremendous zechuyos, and those zechuyos may very well help tip the scale in your favor.
Ah Talmid,
Well for one the fact that Iran doesn’t have a nuke while the IDF has quite a few provides a deterrent. The setbacks that the Israeli intelligence agencies have caused to Iran’s nuke program are well known as well….
Lakewood Fellow -I honestly didn’t know that there are Jews here like you who are drunk on the Zionist Kool Aid!
“Do you think countries like turkey would welcome Jewish immigrants from all over the world and give them a place to live??”
Yes, I do. Many Jews did settle here during their reign.
“Do you think in a situation like WW2 any other country would open its borders and offer citizenship to anyone who is Jewish?”
You mean to tell me that Israel/Palestine opened up their borders during WW2? No, actually the Zionists told the English not to let the European Jews in.
“Do you not see a compelling argument that if many of those Yidden who were killed had had a country they could run too that would have let them in and protect them as citizens during WW2 they would have had a better chance of survival???”
And which country was/is that? Israel seems to be the last country to take in Religious Jews. Fact is – they took in the Yemenites to Shmad them. That is their whole purpose – to Shmad Yiddishkeit. Just because you believe their lies -doesn’t mean most Frum Jews do!
The Zionists are just a continuation of failed communism. That was also started by Jews looking to stop the persecution of Jews in Europe and then Hitler and Stalin came to power, which were the worst Jew-haters since the beginning of this world.
If you think the State of Israel is your salvation -think again. It’s only G-d and this Medina is a thorn in his eyes.
The one Zecus these Freye had was they had a religious status- quo and they supported Limud Hatorah somewhat. With this about to be gone -I actually don’t hate them, like the Mizrachists & Chilonim hate us – the Charedim, I Pity Them!
The Kanoi Next Door,
You said “So they would’ve all gone to America. Big whoop.”
Nope. The Good old U.S.A (and every other country for that matter) wasn’t too keen on taking in Jews and really didn’t care less about em-read a little history.
You said,
“Do you really think that the IDF would have been able to stop the Nazis? It took half the world to defeat the superpower that Germany was; a small army like the IDF wouldn’t have stood a chance. All that the existence of a Jewish State would have done is put all the Nazi’s targets in one place.”
You are missing the point: i think it would have given the Jews a place to run to. In fact the Jews that were in Eretz Yisroel weren’t harmed by the Nazis. Only the European yeshivas and Jewry was. Again, read a little history.
Health,
You said,
“You mean to tell me that Israel/Palestine opened up their borders during WW2? No, actually the Zionists told the English not to let the European Jews in.”
Of course it didn’t it was controlled by the British who cared about Jewish life as much as the Americans-which was not at all. As far as the second part of the quote above; that is simply a distortion of what happened, there was a limited amount of visas being offered by the British and the Zionists pushed for Zionists to get as many as they could- they didn’t encourage the British to not let yidden in to eretz yisroel the British didn’t want too because they like the Americans didn’t give a hoot about the Jews.
Health you said
“And which country was/is that? Israel seems to be the last country to take in Religious Jews.”
Actually Israel is the only country were a Religious Jew who is being prosecuted can run too and be granted citizenship and be allowed to stay in , with no questions asked simply by virtue of being a Jew.
The zionists caused the severe limitation of the ability of Jews to be allowed to go to Eretz Yisroel before the war. They also said they don’t want the old Jews from Europe to come to Palestine. And they said they preferred a cow in Palestine than a European Jew.
And, today, Israel is the most dangerous and deadly country for a Jew to live in.
Israel only ‘needs’ soldiers if there are soldiers. If the secular prefer to be in the army than in yeshiva, then they will be the ‘gun’ to defend the country. But the learning of yeshiva bachurim who are studying in yeshiva provides the ammunition. Without their studying, it would be like shooting with an empty gun. And if everyone were in yeshiva, then we wouldn’t need the gun…
Those promoting an uber-technological utopian revolution should probably have their clorazil dosages adjusted.
ah talmid: “The zionists caused the severe limitation of the ability of Jews to be allowed to go to Eretz Yisroel before the war. They also said they don’t want the old Jews from Europe to come to Palestine. And they said they preferred a cow in Palestine than a European Jew.
And, today, Israel is the most dangerous and deadly country for a Jew to live in. “
Congratulations! You win the award for the dumbest post of the day!
Israel is the deadliest country for a Jew to live in? I won’t even dignify your post with a refutation. But let me ask you this: If you believe this, how can you justify living there?
kanoi:”Do you think countries like turkey would welcome Jewish immigrants from all over the world and give them a place to live??”
So they would’ve all gone to America. Big whoop.”
If you tell me that you never studied any history, I will believe you. Otherwise, I don’t know where you get your information from. Wall posters?
While some American activists sincerely intended to assist refugees, serious obstacles to any relaxation of US immigration quotas included public opposition to immigration during a time of economic depression, xenophobia, and antisemitic feelings in both the general public and among some key government officials. Once the United States entered World War II, the State Department practiced stricter immigration policies out of fear that refugees could be blackmailed into working as agents for Germany. Beginning in 1940, the United States further restricted immigration by ordering US consuls to delay visa approvals on national security grounds. After the United States entered the World War II in December 1941, the trickle of immigration virtually dried up, just as the Nazi regime began systematically to murder the Jews of Europe.
Wake up! No one would accept us other than in very small numbers. Even after the war, only 20% of the displaced persons who were admitted to the US were Jewish. And although I would agree that some secular Zionist leaders were less than enthusiastic about taking in Jews who were not labor zionists, the fact remains thus, it is doubtful that that they could have done much anyway. I’m not excusing some people’s attitude, but it probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference. Today, despite all the issues you raise, Israel is the ONLY country in the world that will accept you solely based on religion. This is the first time in 2000 years this has happened. If you don’t appreciate this fact, I truly feel sorry for you.
The most dangerous country? What are you smoking?
All the Nationalists such as Likud, Bayit Yehudi, Yesh Atid and even Livni who is an ex-Liukd princess) will accomplish is to end up forcing an end to conscription (which will be good for the Israeli economy, and excellent for Hareidim who want to work outside the frum “ghetto”). They won’t be willing to throw people in jail, and fines won’t work since the people they want to fine don’t have any assets. They seriously underestimate the extent the yeshiva world gets money from overseas (both as donations and tuitions), in part since for ideological reasons they won’t admit that this is “income”, and also haven’t realized that the “welfare state” is a more important source of income than subsidies paid to yeshivos, and limiting welfare state benefits based on political views is very problematic. They will manage to encourage many Hareidim who are inclined to volunteer to decline to do so, since even Hareidim who want to play soldier, don’t want to be seen as opposing yeshivos. Most importantly, unless they back down quickly, they may find that the current kenesset “opposition” group of Socialists, Hareidim and Arabs will evolve into a coherent political block united by support for liberal welfare policies, and opposition to conscription (which they are now just discovering) which will make Israeli politics more interesting.
The remarks of ‘ah talmid’ are simply a lie. Contrary to what he said, the Zionists begged jews from Europe to come to israel. Few listened. The reamrk about a cow and a European jew was said by one Zionist (Marxist btw) leader and it is being trumpeted by anti-zionists since then, while ignoring theri own vile anti-zionist virulent propagandsa.
Lastly, isn’t it strange that Jews from all over the world, Argentina, Ffrance, Russia, are streaming to that “most dangerous place for Jews’ ,namely Israel. They don’t seem to think like “ah talmid’ do they?
The zionists caused the severe limitation of the ability of Jews to be allowed to go to Eretz Yisroel before the war. They also said they don’t want the old Jews from Europe to come to Palestine. And they said they preferred a cow in Palestine than a European Jew.
And, today, Israel is the most dangerous and deadly country for a Jew to live in.
Actually the truth is in many cases the Rabbanim refused to allow their flock to emigrate to Palestine before the 1937 White Paper made it illegal. They declared the land assur. Much like they declared going to America assur
“What is your point? That we don’t need soldiers or workers? Are you really serious?”
Correct. Every military insider knows the same.
Israel’s economy is amazingly vibrant. The growth includes areas such as agriculture, high tech, energy, textiles, finance, etc etc. How do you contribute to it? Chareidim are an integral backbone to every element mentioned.
You know who started the “cottage cheese revolution” in the summer of ’11? A chareidi in Bnei Brak, not poster girl Dafna Leef.
You know who got Gilad Shalit out of captivity? Can’t tell you, but it was a chareidi.
What is your point? That we don’t need soldiers or workers? Are you really serious? Israel’s military is the best in the region. They have survived against all odds as a lamb among 70 wolves.
Lakewood fellow: You’ve been infected too?
Nebach
‘You said “So they would’ve all gone to America. Big whoop.
Nope. The Good old U.S.A (and every other country for that matter) wasn’t too keen on taking in Jews and really didn’t care less about em-read a little history.’
You blame them? 4/10 members of the Communist Party USA in 1939 were Jews. The only district that elected a socialist party member to congress three times in a row was the Lower East Side.
“read a little history.”
you want me to pull rank?
You said “So they would’ve all gone to America. Big whoop.”
You said,
“You mean to tell me that Israel/Palestine opened up their borders during WW2? No, actually the Zionists told the English not to let the European Jews in.”
“Of course it didn’t it was controlled by the British who cared about Jewish life as much as the Americans-which was not at all. As far as the second part of the quote above; that is simply a distortion of what happened, there was a limited amount of visas being offered by the British and the Zionists pushed for Zionists to get as many as they could- they didn’t encourage the British to not let yidden in to eretz yisroel the British didn’t want too because they like the Americans didn’t give a hoot about the Jews.”
Do read up a little, even just this thread.
Ever heard of the 6%? 10%? 5,000 pounds? The meeting with Emir Fasel in 1919?
Every step preventing Jews from entering Palestine until (and partially including, all their pious protestations notwithstanding,) ’39 White Paper was pushed onto the British by the zionists (Jabotinsky excepting).
Check the archives
Doubt it?
“Actually the truth is in many cases the Rabbanim refused to allow their flock to emigrate to Palestine before the 1937 White Paper made it illegal. They declared the land assur. Much like they declared going to America assur”
And we see how well staying in Europe worked out, didn’t we?
The Gemorah in Pesochim says that Ribono shel olam did Yidden a favor by dispersing them — their enemies can’t get them in one place. Israel is good to avoid the day-to day persecution in peace time. During the WWII, the IDF would not have been able (derech ha’tevah) to stop the Wermacht.
Ah Talmid,
You said
“And, today, Israel is the most dangerous and deadly country for a Jew to live in.”
This is a blatant falsehood.
“The zionists caused the severe limitation of the ability of Jews to be allowed to go to Eretz Yisroel before the war.”
This is another falsehood. It’s simply not true. The Zionists were begging the Jews to emigrate for years before the war.
It’s weird to have a conversation with someone who makes up facts…
Before Hitler, Jews were living in Europe for 2,000 years and b’derech hateva there was no reason or place to leave it for. No other countries were allowing mass emigration by European Jewry. Not America and not British Palestine. So it wasn’t even possible. Additionally, in America the frum yidden that moved there pre-WWII mostly (but not all) freid out and lost their yiddishkeit and their children to secularism. So it was actually worse to lose your yiddishkeit than to lose your life. Better to keep your soul and lose your life than to lose your soul and keep your life.
As far as dangers today, I don’t know which is the most dangerous, but certainly more yidden are killed and maimed in wars and terrorism in Israel than are Jews in America or even Europe.
Mods – I must apologize for this very long post, but I feel the Zionist propaganda being posted here is Anti-Torah/Anti-Yiddishkeit. There are so many “Frum” posters here spewing the lies of the Zionists -I felt the need to bring out the Truth -once and for all.
I’m Not NK, but am against Zionism (Eg. Brisk, Satmar). I am not bringing any quotes from their website (NK) only from historical websites/encyclopedias. This Avodah Zora (Zionism) has creeped into regular Yidden who believe in Hashem and keep his Mitzvos.
I’m not claiming Antisemitism in the arab/muslim world started with Zionism, but with the advent of Zionism it increased a million fold in the Muslim world.
truthsharer -“It is the definition of idiocy to state that the cause of Arab hatred of Jews is Zionism. It is also playing into the Jew hater’s hands. It’s a terrible shame that many of you stopped your education at third grade. You have a very dangerous viewpoint, one that can kill.”
(In my head, I’m using much worse and much harsher language. Unfortunately, the tuchis kicking you deserve won’t be allowed to be posted and it’s not my job to educate you. I just hope you don’t kill yourself when you decide to take action on your misguided views.)”
ifti99 -“Some of the points get silier and silier. Did the Zionists trigger gezeirus tach v’tat? How about the holocaust? If you ever studied history in school (something I have my doubts on), you would know that the Christian and Moslem countries have done a bang up job of raping, pillaging and murdering Jews for hundreds of years. Now, there is finally a country that will defend our rights. A country that will deter Moslem attacks. A country that you had very little to do with building. And you malign it at every opportunity, while enjoying the umbrella of its’ religious security. Think things are better elsewhere? Try France, where wearing a yarmulke in the streets is a sakanas nephashos. Or Greece, where neo-nazis march openly. Or one of the Arab countries that hate your very existence.
Instead of hakaras hatov, you spit on Zionists. Attitudes like this led to the destruction of bayis sheni.”
Lakewood Fellow -“You are missing the point: i think it would have given the Jews a place to run to. In fact the Jews that were in Eretz Yisroel weren’t harmed by the Nazis. Only the European yeshivas and Jewry was. Again, read a little history.
“You mean to tell me that Israel/Palestine opened up their borders during WW2? No, actually the Zionists told the English not to let the European Jews in.”
Of course it didn’t it was controlled by the British who cared about Jewish life as much as the Americans-which was not at all. As far as the second part of the quote above; that is simply a distortion of what happened, there was a limited amount of visas being offered by the British and the Zionists pushed for Zionists to get as many as they could- they didn’t encourage the British to not let yidden in to eretz yisroel the British didn’t want too because they like the Americans didn’t give a hoot about the Jews.
Actually Israel is the only country were a Religious Jew who is being prosecuted can run too and be granted citizenship and be allowed to stay in , with no questions asked simply by virtue of being a Jew.”
rebdoniel -“Those promoting an uber-technological utopian revolution should probably have their clorazil dosages adjusted.
ifti99 -“And, today, Israel is the most dangerous and deadly country for a Jew to live in. “
Congratulations! You win the award for the dumbest post of the day!
rabbiofberlin -“The remarks of ‘ah talmid’ are simply a lie. Contrary to what he said, the Zionists begged jews from Europe to come to israel. Few listened. The reamrk about a cow and a European jew was said by one Zionist (Marxist btw) leader and it is being trumpeted by anti-zionists since then, while ignoring theri own vile anti-zionist virulent propaganda.”
Above are all the lying Zionist propaganda.
Here is the Truth:
From a historical document on the Web:
“What was the McDonald White Paper of 1939?
Arabs and Jews were called by Britain in 1939 for a conference where they were to discuss different issues relating to each other. The Arab and Jewish delegations came together to look for a solution to their internal differences in the Round Table Conference in 1939, a meeting which is also known as The St. James Conference. Chaim Weizmann came as a representative of Jews with groups of both Zionist and non-Zionist agencies while the Arab delegation came under the supervision of Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini and also included the renowned al-Nashashibi family. Apart from the Palestinian Arabs, the conference was also attended by the delegations of other Arab countries like Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
The conference took off with a bad start. The Arab delegates refused to recognize the authenticity of the Jewish agency and therefore denied the direct and formal meeting with Jewish representatives. Resultantly, the British took up negotiating with each party individually and when both these would not agree to the same terms, the British formed the final policy itself.
Named after the British Colonial Secretary Malcolm McDonald, McDonald White Paper is also known as The British White Paper of 1939 and Parliamentary Document 6019, issued as a result of the St. James Conference by the British. The conference failed to produce the desired results of bringing peace in Palestine; therefore, the British adopted a new policy to handle the drastic situation prevailing in the region.
The 1939 White Paper laid out permanent limitation on Jewish immigration. It allowed the entrance of 75,000 Jewish immigrants over a period of five years, after that, the immigration would need Arab consent. Although McDonald White Paper laid out lenient strategies for the Arabs and Jews were agitated over it, but Arabs still objected to it, stating that it does not imply the formation of an all-Arab state which was unacceptable to them.
The key provisions laid out in the McDonald White Paper of 1939 were:
It is the not the will of the British to form a Jewish state in Palestine.
The Palestinian territories lying West of the Jordan River were to be considered excluded from the decrees of the McMahon correspondence.
After the interim period, British forces two independent states in Palestine of Arabs and Jews, sharing a government in a way where the interests of both the nations are safeguarded.
Transfer of the Arab land to the Jews in most of the regions of the country is to be severely controlled.
Keeping in view the Arab apprehension regarding the Jewish immigration, the five year allowance of 75,000 Jews in Palestine was implemented so that the population of Jews in Palestine remains under one-third of the total.
From the start of the World War II till the end of the mandate, the White Paper remained the basis to set out British policies and all other stood irrelevant. Jews in Palestine as well as in the rest of the places were outraged, considering The White Paper a betrayal by the British. Therefore, right with the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, the decrees of the White Paper were rescinded.”
So you see that the British policies were based on them listening to the Arabs which included Jewish immigration to Palestine. Who was the leader of the Arabs? The Mufti.
Why was this Mufti so Antisemitic? Because he was Antizionism and the proof is the next article:
From Wikipedia: The Mufti – From as early as 1920, in order to secure the independence of Palestine as an Arab state he actively opposed Zionism, and was implicated as a leader of a violent riot that broke out over the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine.[5] Al-Husseini was sentenced to ten years imprisonment, but was pardoned by the British.[6] From 1921 to 1937[7] al-Husseini was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, using the position to promote Islam and rally a non-confessional Arab nationalism against Zionism.[8]
About time,
you said
“You blame them? 4/10 members of the Communist Party USA in 1939 were Jews. The only district that elected a socialist party member to congress three times in a row was the Lower East Side.”
Yeah ok I guess those Jewish Bolshevik commies deserved to die. I guess we can’t blame the U.S. for sending Jewish woman and children back to Hitler to die.
Frankly I can’t believe I am seeing something like what you wrote on a Jewish site written by another Jew…. it’s the kind of thing you would see on a neo nazi site.
You said
“The meeting with Emir Fasel in 1919?”
Yeah… and….? The Zionists made a treaty with the Arabs at the time to attempt to work with them when Jews came in.
The zionists didn’t push the whitepaper! What on earth are you talking about?! The zionists organized mass illegal immigration in response to it.
Health,
So you believe that the British would have been happy to open their borders to masses of Jews if not for the fact that the Arabs were opposed???
If that’s the case why didn’t America or any other country for that matter open their borders??
The British may have used the Arabs as a pretext, like Americans used the “Commie Jew” thing as a pretext. If you think it was more then a pretext you are dreaming
I guess it feels good to believe that we live in a world that likes Jews and were we are safe but the reality is otherwise…
Lakewood Fellow -“So you beleive that the British would have been happy to open their borders to masses of Jews if not for the fact that the Arabs were opposed???”
This wasm’t my opinion. I just stated facts. I know it’s hard for you deal with the truth since your whole life you’re living with Zionist lies!
“If that’s the case why didn’t America or any other country for that matter open their borders??
I guess it feels good to believe that we live in a world that likes Jews and were we are safe but the reality is otherwise…”
I never said the British liked the Jews. It’s a Halacha -“Eisav Soney L’yaacov”. I’ll tell you more facts -it was the English who made the Balfour declaration. If the British hated the Jews that much they would have never made such a thing. So it stands to reason (common sense) that the British would never have imposed such immigration restriction in Palestine if Not for the arabs position.
Again, the arabs hatred that they opposed immigration in Palestine was only because of their hatred towards Zionism.
I know the truth is hard to swallow, but this is still the truth, no matter how brainwashed you and others are!
Health: Did you ever get a secular education? Ever study history? Ever read a secular book?
Forgive me, but you sound like an Arab. Everything you don’t agree with must be “Zionist Propaganda”. Try and read a few books my friend, instead of cutting and pasting from some website that you found that justifies your narrow minded viewpoint.
And BTW. I’m still waiting for you to explain how Zionists caused Chelminicki and the holocaust. Please explain. Everyone here would LOVE to read your views on this topic.
I love when ignorant people try to quote Google searches.
Health: “This wasm’t my opinion. I just stated facts. I know it’s hard for you deal with the truth since your whole life you’re living with Zionist lies!: “
If your idea of “facts” is quoting Wikipedia, you have more issues than I realized. Do you have any idea where “facts” on Wikipedia come from? LOL.
Please read this. It is a direct quote from one of the Nazis at the Nuremberg trial:
According to testimony by Nazi war criminals, the Mufti’s influence was critical to the German decision to annihilate the Jews of Europe. At the Nuremberg Trials in July 1946, Eichmann’s deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:
“The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan… He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz.”
I guess good old Haj Amin the butcher couldn’t differentiate between “Jews” and “Zionists” as well as you can.
Health,
The British only grudgingly wrote the Balfour Declaration due to the pressure the Zionists put on them, and because they felt it would further their relationship with the Wilson administration who’s top aides were Zionists. It would not have happened without the Zionists
The British didn’t write it due to any love of Jews and it doesn’t follow that they would have been happy to let masses of Jews emigrate to their colonies when every other country on earth found a pretense not too.
ifti99 -“Health: Did you ever get a secular education? Ever study history? Ever read a secular book?”
Yes, I do have a secular education and that’s why I know the facts from the Zionist fiction.
“Forgive me, but you sound like an Arab. Everything you don’t agree with must be “Zionist Propaganda”. Try and read a few books my friend, instead of cutting and pasting from some website that you found that justifies your narrow minded viewpoint.”
You see you couldn’t even comprehend what I wrote before, but nothing came from any website on either side, only historical facts. I’m sorry that the truth hurts, but I understand why you are in Denial! And the difference between me and an arab is I hate Zionism & they hate Judaism and Zionism.
“And BTW. I’m still waiting for you to explain how Zionists caused Chelminicki and the holocaust. Please explain. Everyone here would LOVE to read your views on this topic.”
Now you are delusional – I never posted such a thing!
truthsharer -“I love when ignorant people try to quote Google searches.”
C’mon, can’t you do better than this as a defense for your Idol of Zionism?
I could do much better, but you’re not worth it. And just for the record, I was ambivalent when I was younger, mostly due to my yeshiva education.
Lakewood Fellow -“The British only grudgingly wrote the Balfour Declaration due to the pressure the Zionists put on them, and because they felt it would further their relationship with the Wilson administration who’s top aides were Zionists. It would not have happened without the Zionists”
The fact is the British Gov. did do it. No Gov. who hates Jews would do such a thing, pressure or Not.
“The British didn’t write it due to any love of Jews and it doesn’t follow that they would have been happy to let masses of Jews emigrate to their colonies when every other country on earth found a pretense not too.”
Stop comparing between their own country and Palestine. Palestine meant nothing to the English. They would have let in a lot more, otherwise they would have had this policy a long time before ’39. The reason historically to deny the immigration was only because of Arab opposition – due to Zionism. You can tell yourself any lie you want, but the historical truth speaks for itself!
ifti99 -“If your idea of “facts” is quoting Wikipedia, you have more issues than I realized. Do you have any idea where “facts” on Wikipedia come from? LOL.”
I have no reason to think that they are wrong in this case. Do you have a different source that says differently? I highly doubt it.
“I guess good old Haj Amin the butcher couldn’t differentiate between “Jews” and “Zionists” as well as you can.”
I guess your third grade education didn’t teach you that the 20’s came before the 40’s. I posted historical facts why this guy became Antisemitic in the 20’s and that was because of Zionism.
And thank you for proving that Zionism was one of the main causes of the holocaust, due to the Mufti.
Health,
You said
“The fact is the British Gov. did do it. No Gov. who hates Jews would do such a thing, pressure or Not.”
Besides for being untrue as many countries and rulers who dislike Jews will do something that benefits the Jews if it is in their interest and if they are pressured enough;
You haven’t put forward a good argument as to why you believe the British would have done what no other country was willing to do namely open borders of its territories to the fleeing Jews and not find a pretext to avoid doing so like the USA and every other country did.
- The topic ‘Jews Resisting the Zionist Draft’ is closed to new replies.