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llmis1105- Actually, Holocaust survivors tend to have german shepards for protection, BECAUSE they went through the war. My father had around six or seven german shepherds surrounding the house.
re oomis to add to the post-sorry i didnt read thru all the posts yet so i dont know who the origianl poster was…
wheres the obedience school located in here or in E”Y and how much is the tuition?
dogs are mutur. yes on shabbos they are muksah and like all animals you must feed them first.
We had a dog for almost a decade: his name was nosher. some of our kids were attached to him more than others. He passed away on January 1 maybe 12 or 14 years ago. We have fond memories of him.
Enjoy your dog..
We own a dog. She’s a wonderful pet that has had an enormously positive impact on the children. However, if anyone is considering getting a dog, do not underestimate the effort and cost of taking care of it properly. It’s a big responsibility.
The main halachic difficulty is shabbos. Being muktze does not mean that you can’t take care of the dog on shabbos, but one must be careful.
Rabbi Howard Jachter wrote a good summary of the halachos of owning pet. It’s worth reading. (Google it.)
Where is Wolfish Musings? We could really use his expertise here.
the question about owning a dog is not specific for only a dog, but applies to other animals as well, such as cats. Why would this be an issue? Because we all the the stringencies laid out by the shulchan aruch about making brochos or davening in a makom with there is a re’ach ra (bad smell). It is utterly unpermissable, therefore if you will have an animal that will smell up your whole house, don’t do it.
“Joseph
Member
Its simply wrong.
Now watch the religious leftists yell, mekor mekor mekor.
Its simply wrong. “
Joseph,
You’ve now revealed yourself as a closet Modern Orthodox. You paskened based on your ” feelings”
I hate dogs. I would never have one. BUT………….
The fact is, that dogs can be very helpful in helping people who are suffering from depression. It has also been shown that dogs can help people heal faster form illness.
This is why some nursing homes bring dogs to visit patients.
I still don’t understand how Joseph posts on just about every thread. Shouldn’t he be learning all day instead of this bitul zman?
Yes, there are halachik issues but they can all be overcome.
Pashuteh Yid, well said as always!
“wheres the obedience school located in here or in E”Y”
Lots of wonderful mosdos here, but my dog is ashamed because so many of her classmates are going to e”y for “sem”. Its a wonderful mosad, stephen king even wrote about it in his book “pet sem-etary”.
do anyone here actually own a dog??
the chavrusas,
I don’t own any pets other than fish, but when visiting acquaintances who own pets I’ve not ever noticed a bad smell. One would probably want to avoid davening near the litter box, but I doubt that would smell worse than a diaper pail (which b”h I have experienced). Of course davening near a re’ach ra is an issue around small children, who are definitely capable of smelling up a good part of the house.
Feivel,
Are you saying that you think that watching tv all day and listening to goyishe music does not involve transgressing any issurim? (cuz you admitted that having a dog dosnt.)
Can a Jew who is Blind halachically own a dog? Can he or she go to a Guide School a purchase and the service of a Guide Dog? Also to change the subject can a Jew own a Cat halachically? Or is there a difference between Dog and Cat Ownership?
Yankdownunder,
Did you actually read any part of this thread?
According to most, owning a dog is perfectly allowed.
Again, for those who are actually interested, Rav Jachter has a very good summary of the halachos of pet ownership.
asdfghjkl,
I own a dog. actually, my post about it is about a half dozen above yours.
Yanky55, thanks.
YankDownUnder, I actually saw a chashuve Ben Torah who nebech can’t see, davening in the Bais Medrash of a Choshuveh Yeshiva with many Choshuveh Rabbonim. The dog sat in the corner with him and didn’t bother anybody. Apparently, this was totally accepted.
I seem to recall that Reb Moshe has a tshuvah on this and says it is fine. Just checked and it is in OC 1,45. Not only does Reb Moshe say that otherwise the person would have to be misbatel from tefilah btzibur and megillah and krias hatorah his whole life, but also that not being able to go to shul would be tremendous agmas nefesh for him, especially on yomim noraim when everybody goes.
Boruch Hashem the klal was given someone like Reb Moshe who was a godol in menschalchkeit.
000646 & lesschumras,
The difference between the people Joseph critisises & himself is that if the Gedolim would come out tommorow & say that everyone should get a dog, he would be mevatel his da’as to theirs & be the first one on line to get one.
Whereas all of you would either say,
1)I don’t have to listen to the Gedolim.
2)Other Gedolim say differently & I can listen to them.
3)The Gedolim should stay in the Bais Medrash & not get involved with dogs.
That’s the difference between a ben-torah & a “letz”.
not pashut: Thank You
PY: I haven’t yet read Reb Moshe’s teshuva, but my initial take from your presentation of it is that if Reb Moshe had to pasken whether a seeing-eye dog is muttar or not, apparently he held a dog just for a pet was problematic.
I would like to clear up a misunderstanding among some of the posters.
It is permissible to touch (laga’as) something that is muktzah. Touching a dog is therefore permissible. What is not permissible is to pick up muktzah or move it in the manner that it is generally moved (tiltul). There are certain types of indirect moving (tiltul min hatzad) that are permissible in certain situations. So too there are situations when one can move something that is muktzah. But touching is permissible for any muktzah.
Joseph,
Reb Moshe was discussing bringing a dog into a shul. He was not discussing dog ownership in general.
Oib si’z ossur oder pas nisht, halevai zol es zein unzere greste avaireh.
canoresq, thats the wrong havara for a Hunarian 🙂
Welcome back cantoresq, glad to hear from you again.
Not Pashut,
No i dont beleive he would, i think he would say that all the rabbonim who say you should get one are modern and have messed up hashkafos and he would find one who says its ossur and hold like him.
Squek,
from what ive heard, there are no rishnim or achronim that quoted the gemarah and said “times have changed”
000646,
I think you’re cofusing what YOU would say with what HE would say.
Notpashut,
Actualy when i have brought the names of rabbonim who support positions that i have taken on certain subjects he has called them just “run of the mill rabbis” that have nothing on his rabbis.
I have never said ANYTHING even remotley derogatory about any rabbi he goes by, i have just said that not evreybody must go like them and that they have the right to pick wich rabbi (Modern Orthodox or otherwise) they wish to go by.
Joseph
Member
canoresq, thats the wrong havara for a Hunarian 🙂
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Joseph, you’ve never heard me speak Yiddish. That standard transliteration for Hebrew (i.e. in schoarly journals) is to Sephardic; Yiddish is the Lithuanian Klal Shprach.
People- I’ve got a dog. A nice big German Shepard coz I think they’re cute. Whose gonna tell me it’s wrong???
🙂
notpashut: sure, Joseph would be mevatel himself to what they said, just like he did when the Rabbonim said you shouldn’t use the internet.
noitallmr,
I’ve got a big friendly dog too. Since my kids friends coming over frequently, there will be a generation of frum kids in the neighborhood who will grow up not being afraid of dogs. (Kain yirbu.)
Ever notice how frum people get very nervous when you walk the dog anywhere near them?
Feif Un,
All Rabbonim say that if you need it for work you can have it.
Hey, any cat owners out there? We have two cats. Much easier for a frum Jew, you don’t have to walk them and they don’t need as much attention as a dog. My kids love them to pieces, I think it is good for kids to have a pet cause they always have a friend.
dd- Rav Jachter is a huge talmid chochom, but he went to YU, so of course, anything he writes about should not be quoted C”V on this forum.
We wouldn’t want Joseph to be ne’neh from “toras akum”.
notpashut – Thank you again.
cantoreq – Whoever said anything about Hebrew? You made a statement in Yiddish. And as a nice Hungarian boy (pun intended), I expected you to use the correct havara! 🙂
Re: dd
Yeah sure I noticed. Hilarious!
BS”D
Shindy, I used to have several cats. Loved them, but the damage they did to my furniture, wallpaper and home office cabling outweighed the fun of having them.
Also, I am kind of hefty and the cats were very small for me; if I did it again I’d want a bigger animal. Since a big cat is not exactly pet material, I would get a large breed dog or perhaps a bear (and only if I needed one for security reasons).
I love dogs, but they need alot of attention. Almost like having another kid to take care of. Cats are easy to take care of and they don’t bark and make noise. Mine are declawed so my furniture is safe. A bear? I am sure you are joking, a bear is a wild animal and dangerous.
i hate dogs with a passion!!! would never ever want to have one in my home!!!
btw their is a frum blind man in ny that has a seeing eye dog!! i once was at a lecture of his-he’s a big talmod chachom, he said the dog does indeed come inside the shul with him!!! he told us, though i forgot who poskined for him to do so!!!
notpashut: yes, if you need it for work you can use it only for work, nothing else.
I guess Joseph is YW Editor, otherwise he wouldn’t be here, right?
BS”D
LOL I wanted to see who was paying attention – bears are not even remotely meant to be domesticated. Theoretically, cats are not domesticated either – they don’t depend on us, cannot be trained and they retain the same wild instincts as big cats.
Itzik_s,
I wouldn’t say that a housecat, especially one who’s been declawed, isn’t dependent on people. It’s just their attitude.
BS”D
Anon – I had more than one so they had their own entertainment. They even could have fed themselves if I hadn’t gotten wise to their ways and made my cupboards and fridge off limits after a few successful raids.
It is fascinating to watch them because they are miniature lions and they act the same way lions do – they hunt in gangs, fight over mates, drag off more than they can eat and attempt to hide it for later etc etc.
Feifun,
Incorrect
I know, notpashut, Joseph isn’t YW Editor.
The fact is, if you ask any Rosh Yeshiva Jospeh holds of, they’ll probably say it’s assur to use the internet for news, even through Yeshiva World. After all, that’s not necessary for work. So, I guess both you and Joseph aren’t following the gedolim.
feif ,
Once again, incorrect.
Really? How so? Did your Rav say you’re allowed to use the internet for things besides work? I guess he knows better than all the Gedolei Hador you claim to be mevatel to. Maybe you should find a new Rav, since he obviously doesn’t care what the Gedolei Hador say.
Feif un
I think where the Mesilas Yeshorim & the Sha’arei T’shuva speak about laitzonim they should have a picture of you.
BTW, you might want to read what it says there.
So now you’re insulting me instead of answering me. That’s very big of you. You publicly called me a laitz. If you ask nicely, I might even forgive you for it.
Now, tell me, what is your heter to use the internet for things besides work?
Feif, I don’t see any reason why he should respond to your letzonus. That is a factual description of you, nothing else. He doesn’t need you forgiveness, you need to ask mechila from all the ywn readers who you subjected to your letzonus.
Do you even KNOW the description provided in the Mesilas Yeshorim & the Sha’arei T’shuva?
Btw, the Gedolim allow usage with a filter that blocks bad sites. That is the requirement. And YWN is a Kosher site. According to your silly point, YWN is assur according to the Gedolim. (So what are you doing here, according to that incorrect logic?)
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