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Does someone have to be Jewish to enroll in Yeshiva University or Touro College?
Do you think that there will be a time when many prospective college students who aren’t Jewish will apply to Yeshiva University and/or Touro College in flocks?
You know how now some individuals who aren’t Jewish will eat Kosher foods because they associate it with a higher quality and/or etc?
What if Jewish universities and colleges start becoming trendy? Will that affect the enrollment and class demographics?
Thank you 🙂
They both already have plenty of non jews in attendance, I am not sure why you thought otherwise.
I’ll get my Crystal Ball…
YU is officially according to New York State non-sectarian in order to get government money
I suspect Touro is the same. Most if not all catholic colleges like Syracuse or St Johns are also non-sectarian
I wonder if they are allowed to refuse someone because they aren’t Jewish?
Some of the Touro schools are mainly goyim. I think that all of their graduate schools might be mainly goyim. I know the Special Education one is.
I can’t speak for touro but I know that for YU there are two parts. One part is the undergraduate side (where seder and shiur are part of the day) – no non-jews are in this program to my knowledge, also not sure what interest they would have in having seder and shiur being as how it doesn’t mean anything to them.
The other part is the graduate school (no seder and shiur – just secular studies) which many non-jews are a part of.Nomachlokes – Welcome to the Coffee Room! I LOVE your name!
Does a yid need a heter to attend college?
He needs some sense to be knocked into him.
St John’s University in NY is catholic. It had a top-notched speech therapy MS program that attracted many frum girls. Maybe it was not problematic as a graduate program. Undergraduate programs there however required the students to take theology classes. I was told that a student would not be forced to take Catholic theology, they also taught other religions. Imagine learning the tenets of Judaism from a Catholic! I imagine it would not be so simple to attend as an undergrad. (note the information I am basing this on is from personal knowledge of those who went there around 20 years ago. Things may have changed since).
LB -“I was once treated at a Catholic hospital.”
So in Brooklyn many Jews are treated in Lutheran and Methodist hospitals’!
That’s probably not legal.
Many Lutherans and Methodists are treated at Jewish hospitals.
WTP…………..
Youngest Ms. CTL attends a Catholic College in a special BSRN program that has a specific forensic major…not offered elsewhere. The college has a 6 credit theology requirement for undergraduates. I discussed this with the college president before we allowed her attendance. They offer non-Catholics the option to take any 6 credits in the Philosophy department. Daughter took 6 credits in Jewish studies. Professor was a Rabbi, NOT a Catholic.
BTW>>>I grew up in New Haven, my parents and older siblings were from NY. I didn’t understand why so many of my Jewish friends had mothers who had graduated Albertus Magnus College. (My mother graduated Hunter College in 1940). Seems this was the only local college women could attend in the 1930s and 40s and get a BA or BS degree. Jewish students were exempt from religion classes. Yale was male only and the other local schools such as Quinnipiac were only 2 year schools back then. The state colleges were 2 year Normal Schools at that time. It all changed after WWII.My impression is that the main problem with going to a catholic college is the avoda zara all around. You have the same problem with a catholic hospital.
It seems to me that it may be less of a problem than pritzus. But of course, one should ask a sheilah as they should before attending any college. And anyone who is considering going to college should look into the pitfalls of all 3 options (Jewish, secular, or catholic), and make sure he is aware of all the problems with each option before he makes his decision.
Each option has advantages and disadvantages. Some would say that one is better and others would say another one.
Whichever one someone ultimately chooses, he should make sure that he knows what the problems are and how he can try to avoid them.
LB, sometimes Frum people davka go to catholic colleges since there are less pritzus issues (which is more of a concern than avoda zara issues since the person is much more likely to be affected by them).
Amongst other things, I think they are usually not co-ed which of course, makes a tremendous difference.
Also, one of the big problems in a secular college is that fact that you end up becoming part of a chevra of Jews who are less religious than you are, and Frum Jews are much more likely to be influenced by other Jews (especially religious ones) than they are by Catholics.
And it’s not like you have to take any religion courses. My impression is that you take the same classes you would take in a regular college.
The days of same sex Catholic or other colleges in the US is long gone.
Your impression of what classes you must take is not correct. It varies by college. One can seek an exemption, but it is not automatic.
The other problem is that small Catholic Colleges often have opening and closing ceremonies for the semester in the Church Hall. My daughter’s college responded to my objection by moving these ceremonies to the gymnasium these past 3 years.In general Single gender colleges and universities cannot survive. They do not get enough applicants. There were historically female colleges and most of them had to allow men to attend otherwise they couldnt survive
Granted, the girl I know who attended a catholic college did so many years ago, so it may have changed.
But I had thought that the college in Lakewood was all-female.
LU, who says? Missionaries have arguments from the Tanach which those with little or no background (and even those with background) do not know how to refute. Moreover, as happened with the Midianite women peritzut often leads to a”z.
From my limited experience no galachim visit.
Touro seems to be doing fine.
Ironically, the Catholic college was probably more accommodating to her religious needs than a liberal secular college would have been.
Touro is only surviving because they are making money on their grad/med schools which covers the deficit that the frum programs cause.
If the frum program is a constant money loser, why wouldn’t Touro close it down?
Because the frum divisions are why Dr. Lander opened Touro.
” Moreover, as happened with the Midianite women peritzut often leads to a”z.”
Which means that pritzus is worse since it can lead to both.
“Missionaries have arguments from the Tanach which those with little or no background (and even those with background) do not know how to refute.”
I was referring to Frum people from very strong backgrounds (although I don’t know if I made that clear or not).
Also, I’m not sure if they missionarize in catholic colleges. But if they do, and if the student is from a not-Frum background and/or Jewishly ignorant and/or weak in his Emunah, then you may be right. But that is not the type of case I had in mind.Also keep in mind that in that case, some of these problems might potentially exist on a secular campus as well (although it may be less).
The other difference is that pritzus is a problem as soon as you see it. Being surrounded by ovdei avoda zara is not a problem in and of itself.
CTLAWYER -“The days of same sex Catholic or other colleges in the US is long gone”
In Lakewood, Georgian College is all female, but recently the night school is mixed.
Health, thank you for the confirmation:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/jewish-universities-yeshiva-u-touro-college/#post-1265924(I hadn’t known about the night school).
Then it is no longer all female.
CTlawyer -“all female”
That your mistake!
Even in court – I could explain what I meant – it’s all female during day classes!Sorry, once they admitted males they are no longer all-female. They may offer some female only courses, but that is not the same thing.
If you sent your daughter to an all female college, and she went to the library, she would not expect to find male students there. In this case, since males are enrolled in the college, they will be on campus, in the library, etc.Direct quote from the college website: “Georgian Court University, is a Catholic co-ed university offering liberal arts college degree programs on campus and online from Lakewood, New Jersey.”
CO-ED means males and females..in court you could explain whatever you were trying to say, but the facts speak for themselves, the college announces that it is co-ed.
It is NOT all female even in the daytime>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Again, copy and pasted from their website:
“I thought GCU was a women’s college. Is it?
Georgian Court became fully coeducational in 2013. All degree and certificate programs during the day and evening, as well as our residence halls, extracurricular activities, and athletics programs, are now open to both women and men.”I doubt it. You only pay for a semester at a time, so when they announced the change you din’t have prepaid courses due you.
CTlawyer -“Georgian Court became fully coeducational in 2013”
I don’t live in that area anymore. It just shows that their religion changes, when it becomes more feasible for them.
Compare that to Jewish Frumkeit.Georgian college change of heart probably has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Finances.
By not accpeting males they eliminate half to population.
And before you say Yiddishkeit is different, There are many Co-Ed yeshivas and Dayschools who are co-ed because they could not financially survive without being co-ed
It dies not show that religion changes. It shows that a particular college that has a religious affiliation changed its method of operation. Nothing in Church Canon changed and the religion does not mandate separation of the sexes in academia.
Chances are that the college:
#1 needed to compete for students, so became co-ed in order to survive
#2 wanted to apply for state and/or federal grants and could no longer discriminate based on gender and get the moneyYour comment “compare that to Jewish Frumkeit” is not only wrong, but particularly condescending and mean. There are many Frum day schools that are mixed gender enrollment in the US
CTlawyer -“There are many Frum day schools that are mixed gender enrollment in the US”
ZD -“And before you say Yiddishkeit is different, There are many Co-Ed yeshivas and Dayschools who are co-ed because they could not financially survive without being co-ed”Those Frum schools that do that because of the parent clientele. It’s not ideal. It’s usually Kiruv types of schools!
I am in Touro. In the undergrad program, 9am-12pm is like a non jewish college – all types and coed.
In the afternoon and evening hours it is all female on Sundays, Tuesdays and thursdays and all male on Mondays and Wednesdays, and fridays.The graudate programs are I think different buildings for frum and for coed.
Which location?
Touro Flatbush undergrad
The graduate programs I’m referring to Manhattan“Those Frum schools that do that because of the parent clientele. It’s not ideal. It’s usually Kiruv types of schools!”
not always: see:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14679&st=&pgnum=258
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