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hey i think it’s the same thing as a million other examples. is it assur to wear a necklace?
i do a million things that are assur, but my wearing jeans and a necklace are not part of the count. i don’t think anyone who knows anything would even think twice about telling me to stop. and if they would, they’re stupid.
we love you as is moish.
“When I’m working around my yard, or putting up or taking down the sukkah, or shoveling snow etc, jeans seem the perfect clothing. Once I’m wearing them, I rarely change outof them, unless I’m going out where I need to be more formally dressed.”
cantoresq,
Two questions barrister:
1. Would you appear before a Judge in Court on behalf of a client in jeans?
2. Would you appear before G-d in a Synagogue in jeans?
The truth counsel.
I rest my case.
The irritating thing about the original poster is the way he is judgmental and criticizes frum Jews for something that is just chitzonius. There are some reasonable arguments above about jeans. But even with the worst possible interpretation, is wearing jeans worse than the judgmental and nasty words of flatbush27?
Flatbush27’s post is illustrative of everything that is wrong in our society.
For the record, I am wearing jeans as I write this. My wife often wears a jean skirt, as do my daughters, each of whom is filled with a strong sence of yiras shamayim and chesed.
Joseph …
1. Would you appear before a Judge in Court on behalf of a client in anything but a suit?
2. Should you appear before G-d in a Synagogue in anything but a suit?
The fact remains that we don’t. I am not saying it is right or wrong … as stated before, I have no problem wearing jeans, and have long learned that judging people based on what clothes they wear is pointless. However, philosophically, I think that every method of dress has its time and place, and there are few things (this is a recurring point in all of my arguments, in case you haven’t noticed) that are black and white Assur/muttar … discretion is the key
Joseph, the only people who appear regularly in court in this country are lawyers.
Davening 3 times a day is an obligation on lawyers, doctors, farmers, laborers and others. Expecting laborers and farmers to “suit up” daily for Mincha may be a little too much.
moish, we’ll love ya here any which way you are. If I would be looking to pick a fight with you, the last thing I’d start with is the jeans or necklace. Probably I’d try to get you to do something as opposed to trying to get you to stop doing something. Just my opinion
~a~
“Would you appear before a Judge in Court on behalf of a client in jeans?
2. Would you appear before G-d in a Synagogue in jeans?
The truth counsel.”
I wouldn’t, myself, but if I were going to spend a day at the park with my kids, I would want them to be wearing comfortable clothing that was not likely to get ruined. I wouldn’t wear a ball gown to court or shul, either. Everything is about the appropriateness of the place, the time, and the circumstance.
I would also add, that I would not turn away someone who came into shul (not on Shabbos, however, with rare exception) to daven and was wearing jeans. It might not be the most bekovodik thing to wear (to say the least), but there could be a million reasons why someone showed up dressed like that,and to me the ikker is that he is davening in a minyan. I know from experience how easy it is to turn off a boy who is vacillating in his frumkeit, because he showed up to a minyan dressed in clothing that most of us would deem inappropriate for davening. We have done this thread already, and I see no purpose in rehashing it.
qwertyuiop: ha thanx!!! now get a pen, to write down that dd is a guy, not a girl!!!!
i’ve never worn jeans, that’s just me!!!! it makes no differance to me if someone wears them or not…the end!!!
dd, flatbush27 asked everyone not to be nasty. If you disagree with his opinion, fine. But why do you have to get insulting and personal? Can’t we just argue about opinions, not people?
About jeans, I don’t see anything wrong with wearing them, either for performance ar comfort. However, I don’t think that a God fearing jew should daven with jeans. Jeans are casual in the extreme, and I think one should be dressed formaly while talking to the King of kings.
cantoresq, how does them being wrong make you right?
oomis … why would shabbos be any different?
Josh31, too much to do for G-d himself?
“i do a million things that are assur”
moish, I did’t know that there were a million things that are assur. 🙂
But seriously, you need to stop being so hard on yourself. You obviously believe in Hashem, as shown on the zoo/evolution thread, and here you’ve shown a strong sense of right and wrong. I think that most people here would call you a good guy. So you should probaly just focus on wha tyou’re doing right, not what you’re doing wrong.
I vote with mw13, that Moish is one of the good guys.
asdfghjkl: i’ll write it down ASAP, and i think the last time i wore jeans was when i was about 4 years old.$
jeans are not bad real if your busniss requires it then “kal hakavod” and even in genral okay but expalin to me this are not the tight and uncommftarble. i do not know but when you see a guy wearing jeans you think modern which you should not do not be quick to judge. i want jeans to look cool once be modern but real no need also pocket room to small
joe: moish is a great guy!!!
I do not understand the purpose of this thread. Is it to show how Frum someone is because they are wearing a suit with a black hat? My question is how did Religious Jews Dress 150 years ago before Suit and Black Hat became the attire when we davened? Most likely people wore very plain maybe clean clothes. I thought mentchlikeit and derech eretz supersedes our outside attire. YWN is a very public website viewed by many people, why keep threads like this one that polarize and demean other posters.
Joseph
Member
“When I’m working around my yard, or putting up or taking down the sukkah, or shoveling snow etc, jeans seem the perfect clothing. Once I’m wearing them, I rarely change outof them, unless I’m going out where I need to be more formally dressed.”
cantoresq,
Two questions barrister:
1. Would you appear before a Judge in Court on behalf of a client in jeans?
2. Would you appear before G-d in a Synagogue in jeans?
The truth counsel.
I rest my case.
Posted 3 hours ago #
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1. No because it’s socially not accepted. But truth be told, i think court is too formal. If judges can wear khakis under t heir robes, and many of them do i’ve seen it, I fail to understanad why I can’t get away with a nice pair of trousers and a blazer. Why the need for a suit and stiff collar?
2. Yes, but not on Shabbat or Yom Tov. I think G-d is glad I came, wardrobe notwithstanding.
Joseph, the Torah was not given to the “ministering angels”.
One criterion I have heard is “not to daven in clothing that person would not been seen outside in the street with”.
The Shulchan Aruch specifically mentions in Siman 90 of Orach Chaim that one needs to dress in an honorable manner when one prays. If you appear before a judge, come dressed like a slob, and ignore the judge when your cellphone goes off, he’s not going to be too inclined to listen to you. Rabbeinu Yonah mentions having a clean garment to put on by davening. Hashem is not only our father but our King as well.
That said, this is in regards to oneself. One does not judge other people- “Betzedek tishpot amisecha”. Judge yourself harshly, others favorably. If someone comes to shul dressed that way, let him be. There may be other factors which make his tefilla more accepted than yours, even though he’s in jeans and you’re in the hat and jacket. In a shul I attended in Israel the locals came in a clean white shirt and their best jeans on Shabbos. If that is the minhag hamakom, then one is not making a casual statement by coming to shul in jeans.
Around the house is clearly another story.
Let’s expand the topic- what about coming to shul in shorts or sweatpants?
so time out. if i’m smoking or wearing jeans i probably shouldn’t wear a yarlmuka, right? at least i won’t be making a chilul hashem…
(i am so waiting for an attack… hold your fire, i’m not armed…)
qwertyuiop: good your writin it down!!! i don’t even remember wearing jeans at age 4!!
oh and mw13, i bet there are a million if you count in all the derabonons. you wanna count them up and let me know? shabbos alone probably has a few hundred.
flatbush27,
Lawyers and bankers wear suits. Farmers, car mechanics and laborers wear jeans. Doctors wear white coats.
As a hardware engineer I wear something in between. If I wore a suit, I would lose credibility with my peers.
All these above occupations are legitimate for Jews.
Jeans were invented for work, not idolatry or immorality.
I am a young man of 21 years and have recently started wearing jeans only a few months ago. Throughout my yeshiva years we were always told what is “proper” for a ben torah to do and wear outside of yeshiva. One day it finally hit me that these ideals were being shoved down my throat without reason or discussion as to why the hanhala felt this is the proper way. When I attended beis medrash in israel I asked a rebbi of mine as to why the jewish uniform has become white shirts and black pants and he had no directanswer for me. How many times have we gone to shul and seen the kid or young man with no hat or crocs or jeans and say to ourselves “I wonder where that guy is going wrong”. But at the same tine there are five other people who are wearing the same thing yet are davening ten times better than you are and not looking at everyone else but rather are concentrating on the tefilla. Some may say that it is beacause of the way society portrays jeans that they are bad. I say it is because of society that we now judge a person and the level he is on solely on the clothing he wears.
oh, moish, you’re a funny one. The answer is NO!
Your yarmuka is your crown. When I see guys smoking and/or wearing jeans that are wearing a yarmuka on their heads, I think that’s beautiful. Ok, could be they are at the moment going over some bumps in the road of life. But they are making a wonderful statement by keeping the yarmuka right where it is. If they would walk around without it, now that’s what I would think is a chilul hashem.
~a~
moish01: no no no!!! remember i’m the one that loves knives & guns!!!
no, you wouldn’t know i was jewish without a yarmulka. so where’s the chilul hashem there?
won’t tell you where i got it, but i got you a present…
.
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'-'moish: the yarmulke is staying right where it is.$
asdfghjkl: i think i did, but i could be wrong it was a long time ago.$
anonymisss that was great, it bothers me to no end how people are constantly looking for the negative…
Moish the yarmulka is what differentiates (sp?) your outside to the average passer-by from any goy on the street, and it is witness to your being jewish.
btw, I’m still waiting for an answer on the smoking thread
moish: please keep the yarmalka on your head!!! you are a yid!!!
god, you people are funny! after everything’s said and done that’s the thing you care about?? it’s not the biggest deal, that’s why i usually wear one, but it wouldn’t be a huge deal if i didn’t. there are plenty of heterim out there to not wear one anyway.
moish: a present for me??? yay!!! thanx pal!!!!
moish, I have sneaking suspicion that you’re going to hate me for saying this, and I don’t even know you so it’s not directed at you. Maybe I just have really awesome vision, but the truth is that I can spot a jewish guy a mile away, yarmuka or not, it’s written all over the face.
and moish? about this comment of yours: “after everything’s said and done that’s the thing you care about??” Listen up, we care about you and everything that relates to you. Got it? Good!
~a~
just one thing: when you get arrested, don’t say where you got it. deal?
moish01: it’s a deal!!! yay i love guns & knives!!!!!!!!!
brilliant, anonymiss. you’re gonna see me in pizza time and hear them call “moish” and BRILLIANT you is gonna know i’m jewish, whether or not i’m wearing a yarlmuka. so smart.
anonymisss, on second thought, i know what you mean. i can tell if a guy is jewish or not at first glance too. girls are a little harder (depending on how their dressed) but the second they open their mouths you can tell. (and that works no matter HOW they’re dressed)
Again, I started out by saying you will not like this and that I don’t know you. Forget the name, moish, it’s very often pretty obvious who is jewish. The friends, the behavior, and the look in the eyes. You have shown yourself in the past to be observant. It’s possible that you will think differently than I do, next time your out just pay attention to it and let me know what you think. Alrity?
~a~
god i can’t believe i spelled that wrong.
they’re dressed, NOT their dressed.
it’s killin me.
I have always wondered about the jeans thing myself. In high school we were considered naked for wearing jeans, yet my father always dropped me off while wearing jeans and there were women around who never seemed to be shielding their eyes.
Seriously – Jeans were invented by a Jewish dude by the name of Levi Strauss – how can they be goyishe if a Jew invented them.
Really what you should be asking yourselves is how we can wear clothing at all – when all these non-Jews are wearing them. It should be like a shinuy – Jewish people should only wear clothing that looks ridiculous or is completely out of style so we don’t look goyishe.
Oops then we may all become hipsters.
frumsatire: welcome to the CR, and i don’t think levi strauss is the only one.$
Those who want too excuse themselves for how they dress will always answer back with an arguement or question – this is usually done when there is no other answer to offer.
Jeans or no jeans – those who wear jeans will always have an answer or argument as a reason why they wear jeans. Saying they are for building, decorating and other such work is not acceptable as there are plenty of other fabrics suitable.
If you wear jeans just say you wear them because you like them, don’t give an explanation. They are not appropriate attire for religious people as they are a garb of non Jews but hey if you want to wear them go ahead just don’t go on the defense.
moish, until you can get that amazing gift over to asdf to play with, maybe you should hide it under your bed.wishing you a good nite!
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