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you know what this whole post is very sad…Jews arguing with Jews (me included) about a material used to make clothing…
no wonder we are still in galus, waiting for the Moshiach
popa- yes I dont think they are classy. just my opinion. I guess there are some that are ok but in general they just turn me off…. I dont have an issue with the dark denim ones though
There is a world of difference between “don’t think they are classy”, and “trashy.”
Besides, if you are ok with the dark denim ones, you are on my side already. Because the women who don’t wear them don’t wear any. And men who don’t wear jeans certainly don’t differentiate between colors.
Pac-Man
Could be. But generally the types of guys I date wouldn’t wear them…
adorable
Trashy? Come on…
This thread reminds me of an incident I had a few years ago. A prominent Rov in my neighborhood spoke about how the “casual look” at work is a yeridah in respect, kovod etc.
I pointed out to him (it was during sefirah) that this casual look in the office allows me to sit in a bank office with a yarmulke and sefirah beard.
There was no reply.
And if you couldn’t sit in the bank office with a sefirah beard and yarmulka? You would have taken it off?? I certainly hope not. You would work elsewhere with your yarmulka and beard.
eman
Perfect!
How I hate the holier than thou attitude *gag*
Pac-Man
Perhaps you are not aware of the many Rabbanim who give heterim to men working in the corporate world to shave during sefirah…
You missed the point. Read the response contextually to eman’s attempt to “shlug up” his rov.
Pac-man,
In case you did not know, one can’t change jobs just like that, especially in this economy.
That depends how much one is willing to sacrifice to uphold yiddishkeit. Not too many decades ago some people were saying the same thing about changing jobs just like that, during the Depression, even if they had to work on Shabbos. This is obviously not on that level, but the idea is the same.
PACMAN-
There are toupes.
They are heterim to sit indoors w/o a head covering.
They are heterim to shave during sefirah.
And you missed the point. Read it contextually to how you attempted to “shlug up” your rov.
Off topic. If one dressed formally all the time, what special item(s) does he wear for tefillah? shabbos?
designated Shabbos suit
my best tie, which i wear only on Shabbos
shine my shoes
belt with gold buckle instead of weekday silver buckle
better hat
but the ikar of Shabbos begadim is not necessarily better or nicer, although that is certainly appropriate and a hiddur.
but the ikar is to have begadim that are designated (miyuchad) for Shabbos and Shabbos only.
heals
i dont have particular clothing for Tefillah
i like the idea but it just is not practical for me
i dont personally know anyone who has special begadim for Tefillah, but i imagine there are some who do.
and lipstick
I think society plays a very big part in this. Where I grew up, pretty much all women and girls wore denim skirts. It wasn’t even an issue. After I got married, I moved to an out-of-town kollel community in EY where it’s very rare to see denim skirts. It took me very little time to realize that I stood out in my denim skirts, so I stopped wearing them. It’s been a good 13 years or so since I last wore denim.
80. You wear a suit every day? Kudos to you 🙂
Mod 80- I have one. My tallis gadol is meyuchad l’teffila. My neighbor also has a gartel which is meyuchad.
i guess i do too
nothing for Mincha and Maariv though
i heard that the main meaning of the gartel is not for a separation between lower and upper body, most men wear belts or other clothing that serves this function (elastic waistbands)
i heard that the members of the kings court, the nobility, would wear it when they stood before the king. it is a garment of distinction for the wearer and kovod for the king. i wish i could wear a gartel but alas i was told it wouldnt be proper (for me)
what about a jean suit…70’s style
Want to stand out, go for a 30s style zoot suit 🙂
What about black shirts and white pants? A reversal on the Yeshivish look…I wonder if I can get it to catch on, might try it next time I’m in Monsey 🙂
Mod-80: A lot of Rav Schachter’s talmidim put on a tie for davening.
eman: gut gezogt!
Pac-Man: Yes, he shlugged up his rov, and quite well too. Now can we move on?
Normally, wearing jeans is a non issue. I wear them, my mother wears them, and so does my sister. My father doesn’t, he just doesn’t like them. However, under some circumstances wearing jeans could be considered a mitzva, perhaps even d’oraisa.
No IS, his Rov shlugged him up and he didn’t even chap!
Sacrilege,
“I doubted you working in the fashion industry in your first post, now I am sure of it.”
Are you sure now that I don’t work in the Fashion Industry or are you certain that I do?
And to everyone else: Forget long denim skirts, this discussion just turned nerdy. Like everyone think for yourself you have the facts or opinions or whatever and just deal.
Tznius is the most important attribute for a Jewish a girl to possess and I kind of thought that would be obvious. For all those of you who vehemently maintain that denim is zero breach of tznius, ha. haha. I’d love for you to sit in Fashion Marketing 101 for just one session, and I think there would be no need for discussion.
so the opinion of Professor Fashion Marketing 101 is the last word in what a frum person can wear? why is that? has the illustrious professor studied fashion trends in frum neighborhoods?
dont think its a tznius issue.if my future rebbitzen wants to wear them no prob.i agree that they are not classy
I’d love for you to sit in Fashion Marketing 101
That’s not what the course is called, troll.
Kshmo
Looks like I’m not the only one who thinks you are full of it.
When you look at the pictures of the queen of England, who is one of the last really royal people in the world, you will never see her in jeans. She wears skirts and sleeves. The only difference between her dress code and tznius is that she wears low necklines. But she would never wear pants in public and certainly not jeans- commoners clothing. We’re all Jewish- children of Hashem- which makes us royalty too. We should dress the part. Whether jeans and jean skirts are tznius or not is not the issue. It’s the look. Jeans make you look lower class- they are what the average American high school and college student wears all the time, as well as what manual laborers wear. If we are royalty we should wear the clothing of royalty, and not wish to lower ourselves to the level of commoners.
cucumber:
We’re supposed to dress like royalty? Who told you that?
Show me a source.
they are what the average American high school and college student wears all the time
Average is not lower class. Average is normal.
popa_bar_abba
I did not say it is a halacha to dress like royalty. I said we are children of Hashem and we should want to dress the part. If you want to loook like a lowlife that is fine, no one is stopping you.
Ok, who said that we should dress like royalty?
Where are you getting that idea from?
One would think if it was important it might show up in at least one or two seforim.
If you want to loook like a lowlife that is fine, no one is stopping you.
Wearing denim skirts does not make one look like a lowlife, and if you look at people who do like lowlifes, you need a major attitude adjustment.
cucumber is making a very logical case why a Yid should dress upper class, even if there is no strict halacha mandating that per se.
Firstly, there was no case made. It was simply asserted.
Secondly, there was certainly no case made that you should instruct kids that they must dress a certain way, and call people who don’t “trashy”, and look down on them- which you do. (And be ???? on baal tosif by pretending it is halacha)
cucumber most certainly did make a case. And a very good one at that. She demonstrated Yidden are royalty — and should act and dress the part.
No, because when I asked why we should dress like royalty, the only answer is that we are children of Hashem and should dress the part.
Well, how do children of Hashem dress? Did any chazal ever say that children of Hashem dress like royalty? I think not.
And do you really think we should dress like royalty? No, you don’t think so. You think we should wear your arbitrary dress code, which admittedly is more refined than ordinary dress, but is not even close to royalty.
Don’t make the torah into your source that you call upon whenever you want to justify what you want to do. Just do what the torah says to do.
which admittedly is more refined than ordinary dress, but is not even close to royalty.
Even if you don’t get to the goal, you should aim to reach as close as possible.
Don’t make the torah into your source that you call upon whenever you want to justify what you want to do.
That is precisely why you should accept that an eidel yid dresses eidel. Even if you can’t “cite” a Chapter and Verse in S”A that mandates being eidel.
As I have already pointed out (um, thanks for reading my post? ;), there are many pictures of Prince William in jeans.
and call people who don’t “trashy”, and look down on them- which you do. (And be ???? on baal tosif by pretending it is halacha)
Popa, that is a very important point. By pretending it’s halacha they commit bal tosif. By looking down on people who don’t keep this “halacha” they are m’galeh da’as that this shita supercedes other, real, halachos. That’s what I was talking about when I posted earlier that it’s sometimes a mitzva d’oraisa to wear jeans. The exact lashon can be found in Devarim 7:5.
I have not read one comment on this thread, by anyone, asserting that a girl who wears jeans will burn in gehenim for it.
Even if you don’t get to the goal, you should aim to reach as close as possible.
I was demonstrating that even you do not believe in that goal. And I am correct.
That is precisely why you should accept that an eidel yid dresses eidel. Even if you can’t “cite” a Chapter and Verse in S”A that mandates being eidel.
That is apikorsus. We don’t read our own morality into the torah.
Itche: Precisely.
Correct, the morality comes to us from the Torah. Precisely my point.
pacman
what?
Popa: Sadly, some of the psukim around there also apply.
Pac-Man: Exactly. Our morality comes from the Torah, not from your fashion sense. (Especially if you really are a pac-man not Pac-woman.)
As I have already pointed out (um, thanks for reading my post? ;), there are many pictures of Prince William in jeans.
thats why i specifically said the Queen,not the prince.
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