- This topic has 132 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 1 month ago by .
-
Posts
-
Blake was shot while getting into his car. I assume the police shot him because they thought he was going for a gun or something, does anyone know if the Kenosha PD said anything to that effect?
There is a police officer on youtube, MikeTheCop, who said that Blake was known to local police to carry a gun in his car, told them at that time he had a gun in his car, was holding a knife, and had an active warrant for assault and domestic abuse.
The Kenosha PD cannot be dumb enough to talk about the specifics now. Their town is in pretty bad shape. They need to find a good top cop and let him do his job.
There was NO GUN found and there were 3 little children in the back seat. Since they haven’t released and videos of prior activity and the Kenosha police have deliberately delayed use of body cams, we don’t know what might have happened before the policeman grabbed his shirt and emptied 7 rounds into his back at point blank range that might have justified the shooting.
Dear Noyb,
Just another source that most police officers are petrified of live crime.
GH:
People known to carry guns mist be considered armed until it is verified otherwise. Meanwhile, you are looking to declare the shooting unjustified. I don’t know that, nor do i know otherwise. Let the investigations be done. In the meantime, the riots and savagery being done in his name are certainly without excuse. If I was in charge, I would want to use deadly force against these animals. No one has the privilege of declaring the shooting unjustified until proven so. The mentality that you imply has no basis in morality, and that is why the Dems that encourage this violence, looting, and destruction richly deserve to occupy prison cells, not public office.
Dear The Little,
You seem to be missing one point. Which town has a riot and which one has a peaceful protest, has to do with the level of community trust. There would have been no investigation into the death of George Floyd without some form of public protest.Has the Kenosha PD even announced who will be handling the investigation?
TLIK
“People known to carry guns must be considered armed until it is verified otherwise.”. It would be great for the Policeman to say that excuse under oath so that he could be prosecuted for murder.
Is that what is taught in the Police Academy ?
That is Trump’s America but that is not America founded on the Constitution and bill of rights.Is this the new Trump motto – “Police can shoot everyone known to carry guns.” Which party is the one encouraging violence? Which party has no sanctity of life?
It is ten times worse when the violence comes from the state and the police under the shield of the law. That is what all the protests are about. Trump followers still don’t understand.Police investigating themselves usually reaches a very biased conclusion.
There needs to be peaceful protests or else they will continue killing innocent people.” I would want to use deadly force against these animals”. I am surprised that line got through censorship. Rioting doesn’t always require deadly force to stop. Unless you want the cops being the Judge, Jury and Executioners, that is not the way it is supposed to work.
GH & Jackk and Other Libs here:
The US of A – has become a society of Gang Rules, Not one of Law & Justice!
The Libs have made this country Worse Than China or Russia.
There is a Video of the incident, I think from a Black guy, he shot the video & he testified that the Cops kept Yelling – “Put the Knife Down”.
So if you believe the Guy, it was a justified Shooting.
The Prob is – if a guy has a knife and is ordered to put it down – Give him a half a second to comply – Then Shoot! It was Stupidity to Let the Perp enter his car.
It’s because the Cops are afraid of doing their Job, because Half the country doesn’t believe in Law & Order anymore!He was shot in the back. Seven times.
Dear Health,
You only support the law idea in law and order. You never encourage people to act orderly when they are within the law.
Dear Doing,
It is hard to state that the cop is a bad guy. But there is a lot of evidence that they are not that great at their jobs. They should have been aware of what was going on around them. They should have realized his kids were there. [Maybe they did.] They should not assume that he would start shooting in front of his kids. Cops being so afraid that they cannot think straight, need better training. Or a career change. It seems like nobody in America believes this, but there are plenty of capable police out there. There could have been a bunch of talented officers on hand in Kenosha. All it takes is one idiot to open fire, and a controlled situation becomes a mess.
Speaking of making things up, your comments on this case are totally irrelevant. Feel free to pontificate about a cops role and efficacy but you seem to have not yet looked into the details of this case.
Dear Syag,
My comments are always irrelevant. It is just words forming ideas, or the reverse. On this topic, I am commenting on other posters pontificating about the case. See my first post (as well as the OP) which assumes that we will not have any real details soon.I did not form any opinion on this case. My comments are aimed at policing in general. Based on first hand experience. I still do not see any significant details being reported. Just about every article has ‘no additional details are available at this time’ attached. the only thing I noticed is that there seems to be no local investigation. But both state and federal. And they are both claiming that they cannot say anything.
“They should not assume that he would start shooting in front of his kids. ”
I dont know anything about the case, and neither does anyone else.
But, using the argument that he had three kids in the car, threatened in front of them that he was going to get his gun and then went to get his gun, shows that he doesn’t necessarily deserve the benefit of the doubt and that the cop shouldn’t assume that he wouldn’t shoot in front of his kids.Again, I dont know anything about this case and I’m not making any assumptions of my own until more facts are in.
That we now know there was no gun in the car makes no difference. He was resisting arrest, repeatedly disobeying the police’s orders, and reached into the car. The moment he reached in the police were right to shoot him.
Yes, charliehall, in the back. And if you did that you would deserve to be shot in the back too. Do you seriously think they have to wait until he retrieves a gun, turns around, and begins firing?!
He was already armed with a knife. And now he was reaching for something. That’s enough.
Now that we know there was no gun we can only speculate what his intention was. Perhaps he was planning to get in and drive away, because he knew there was a warrant out for him and he had no intention of going to prison. Letting him escape would have endangered the community, so that would justify the shooting too, even under the modified fleeing felon rule that we have now.
The underlying problem is that too many black people imagine that being arrested is optional, that they have the right to disobey police orders and do what they like. George Floyd did the same thing, so that the police had to restrain him, which in his health condition was a bad idea for him. Eric Garner too. In both cases the police did nothing wrong, and the victims caused their own deaths by resisting while in such poor health that any kind of stress could kill them. Floyd had just swallowed a huge quantity of drugs, probably to avoid being arrested with them on him, so it’s really a straight case of suicide. Garner committed suicide by fighting when his heart wasn’t up to that stress.
Of course the execrable jackk deliberately makes up arguments. Of course police can’t go around shooting anyone known to bear arms. There’s nothing wrong with bearing arms, it’s one of our civil liberties, just like speaking our minds or going about our business unmolested. So long as someone is not doing anything to make them think he’s going to shoot them or anyone else without just cause, the presumption or even knowledge that he’s armed is irrelevant. But when someone is resisting arrest, refusing orders, and reaches for something that may well be a gun, the police can and should shoot him. They can’t afford to wait until he starts shooting. THERE IS NO RIGHT TO RESIST ARREST.
Most of the people here are engaging in wishful thinking in accordance with their political view. Considering that no one knows (and probably never will) what actually occurred, the speed of judgement here is astounding. I find it even stranger due to the almost complete lack of trust in the media that is usually expressed in this forum. Yet here almost everyone is cocksure of what happened, with advice, judgments and political predictions, all based on the media.
How so?Why assume all this negativity on the cops? Because the news said so? Who said they are too scared to do their jobs or assess the scenes? Their worst enemies are the press and the people who vilify them because of a bunch of articles.
There has been a lot more detail on this including more video, his weapon, the real reason for the call, what information they had on him before they got there. (Perhaps my close proximity has made these stories more available). With that information you would see that comments like not knowing their surroundings etc make no sense.
GH- you seem to live in a bubble not only of the east coast, but socioeconomically as well.
Did it ever occur to you or nom that perhaps he’s held guns to his own kids before and they specifically didn’t want him in a car with them? You can’t just spin facts based on your assumptions or daled amos.Here is someone who seems to know;
HEY, LEBRON JAMES, NBA AND ALL LIBERALS: Watch: The Truth About Jacob Blake (Hint: He Was No Saint)
I will withhold judgment. The incident looks terrible from the two videos I saw but I think it only fair to let the investigation run its course. I can see a scenario where the officers opened fired because they feared for the lives of the children in the car. It may be unlikely but there is no need to rush to judgment. (Unlike the George Floyd incident where there was no possible justification for the officer’s behavior). Can’t we just wait and see how this develops?
nOmesorah -“You never encourage people to act orderly when they are within the law.”
Where did you get that from?
nOmesorah -“They should have been aware of what was going on around them”
They were! That’s why they said – Drop the Knife.
They should have shot him Right away – Not wait for him to try to escape in his car.Dear Rational,
The early part of this thread was understood (At least by me.) as pure speculation.
Dear Millhouse,
On the way to the car the police are marching behind him like it is a parade. If it is so dangerous to reach into a car, or such criminal activity to resist arrest, why did they not do something before he got to the car door?
Dear Syag,
Did it ever occur to you, that perhaps he was offering the cops a pepsi?
Dear Health,
Aware of what? There are three officers in the video, and they are all staring at Blake as if he is in the circus. And Blake is totally ignoring them. He is not their biggest possible threat. If any bystander would have pulled out a gun, there could have been three dead cops. I personally knew people who could have jumped all three officers at once in this situation. Maybe they had cover down the street. And maybe this is a case of suicide by cop.
Dear Interjection,
“But, using the argument that he had three kids in the car, threatened in front of them that he was going to get his gun and then went to get his gun, shows that he doesn’t necessarily deserve the benefit of the doubt and that the cop shouldn’t assume that he wouldn’t shoot in front of his kids.”
Police have to maintain control of the situation. Period. That is their job. The kids in the back seat can be used as a key to understand the situation.
It is unclear what happened here. Maybe the Police never got a handle on what was going on. Maybe Blake flew off the handle. The video looks pathetic. I do not know how many facts will ever be known about this case.
n0msesorah,
Thanks for admitting that the facts are not clear (to us), which is enough of a reason not to rush to judgment. There are enough ways of explaining this in a way that justifies the actions of the police and there are a lot of questions that should be answered.
But the mainstream media and looters are capitalizing on this unfortunate situation and don’t really care about the facts, whatever they may be.
FACT – A family member called 911 asking for help with this fellow
FACT – This fellow had an open warrant for his arrest
FACT – This fellow was a convicted sex offender
FACT – This fellow had a prior gun arrest
FACT – This fellow fought off the cops actively resisting arrest
FACT – During the 911 call one of the specific complaints was that this fellow took keys to a car which was not his to operate. So he had to be considered a threat to the children in the car.
FACT – This fellow was armed with a knife
FACT – Was not showing his hands rather he was rooting around for something which MUST BE assumed to be a weapon.
FACT – This fellow was shot according to every reasonable standard of U.S. law and known public policy.nOmesorah -“He is not their biggest possible threat.”
Pray tell – what is?
“On the way to the car the police are marching behind him like it is a parade. If it is so dangerous to reach into a car, or such criminal activity to resist arrest, why did they not do something before he got to the car door?”
This I agree with.
Once a Perp has a weapon – here it was a knife – and the Cops kept Yelling – “Put the Knife Down”.
You surely don’t Let him move until he complies with the ORDER!The whole country was one Unit when were attacked on 9/11.
Now that Politics are involved, we Lose our Senses of Right and Wrong!
Trump still believes in Doing What’s RIGHT!
The Democrats only believe in the PC!Dear Health,
Any bystander that wanted to get involved could have killed theses cops in an instant. Like, if the fellow who videoed it would have had a gun.
Dear Old,
“FACT – This fellow was shot according to every reasonable standard of U.S. law and known public policy.”
Maybe it is reasonable to you that people should be shot according to standards and policies. To me it is all about the context. And it is the job of the police to control the context. If they are not equipped to do that, they should not be there.
Dear Two,
To me, this is not about judgement. I leave that to the courts. This is about policing. It could be justified on the basis that they were trying to do their jobs in good faith. That is proving my point. Policing in this country is not set up for successful outcomes. Things could be changed. But I am skeptical if now is the right time for that.
Nom- no, i prefer reality to making things up and pretending they happened.
Which brings me to the next comment:
“it is the job of the police to control the context. If they are not equipped to do that, they should not be there.”They are equipped and do do that generally. That is why these are infrequent incidents in the big picture.
If you think the fellow is a human being then he has agency and needs to control “his own context.” And to the extent that he didn’t, he can blame whatever image he sees in the mirror.
Dear Old,
These two topics are not directly linked. We can have civilian misconduct, alongside police misconduct.
Dear Syag,
I asked if you considered it. It is a funny thought. just checking how serious this topic is to you.
I somewhat disagree. Police do not seem equipped to deal with domestic disputes.
The woman in the video seemed bothered by the outcome.
Dear Doing,
It is too conflicting to guess what went on here. The point (Not my point. I think GH mentioned it.) is, that the kids were not props. But going by only the video, they may as well have been mannequins.
If they would have paid more attention (Maybe they did.) they could have had more restraint (Maybe that was not an option). The police where acting like he is about to blow up town hall. He is walking toward a car that has his kids in it.Honestly, the topic means nothing to me. Many topics mean nothing to me but i end up getting sucked in because of the way people choose to express themselves or misrepresent organizations/people/religion etc. I guess if it was a funny topic i would have laughed, but since i was expressing annoyance at your presentation of ideas as fact, it felt more like a jab at that.
The easiest way to justify the cops is, if he told them he is going to the car to kill the kids.
Dear Doing,
What kind of knife? I carry a utility knife all the time.
If they thought he was going to get a gun from the car, they messed up by letting him get that far.
And, why weren’t they afraid of being shot from behind?
Nom- do us all a favor and research it. Half your speculations and assumptions can be dissmissed and it will save you so much ink.
nOmesorah -“Any bystander that wanted to get involved could have killed theses cops in an instant. Like, if the fellow who videoed it would have had a gun.”
Exactly. Being a cop is a dangerous job! You need eyes in the back of your head.
You must take care of the immediate problem – first.
That means taking care of the Guy with the Knife.
Once he’s in a police car & they feel it’s a volatile situation or could become one – sometimes the best thing to do is to leave the Area!Simple. He was told to STOP many times and he didnt. He kept saying how he had a weapon in his car and he kept going for it. He opened the car door and GOT WHAT HE DESERVED!
Granted the looney left marxists blame the officer but you know something, had he LISTENED to the officers, he could have been alive. He didnt and there is one less thug.
It’s not rocket science. During an encounter with the cops don’t make the cops fear for their lives and your chances of getting shot are near 0%. Not exactly 0% but near 0%. Doesn’t matter your race or gender. Either because of genetics or environment some people can’t understand this. It doesn’t go well for them. It doesn’t matter if you get a good or bad cop. There are a small percentage of bad cops. Rotten apples having bad days. If this alleged spoiled, rotten apple pulls over a black man who shuts off the engine, keeps his hands visible and stays civil that person will NOT get shot even if they have no license, registration, or proof of insurance. Even if that person has outstanding warrants. They might get arrested, but they will not get shot. As a civilian interacting with a cop you have to do your part in the encounter. Your behavior is 100% on you. I don’t think many (any) big city cops are still acting like country sheriffs in the segregated south breaking people’s taillights and then writing tickets. We live in a large, complex society. And males threatening cops and females getting nasty, hysterical and manipulative is bad behavior that should transformed into civility and professionalism. Not excused and encouraged.
JJ -“he could have been alive. He didnt and there is one less thug.”
He’s still Alive.
The cops are Too scared to do their Jobs nowadays.
I wrote this Above – “They should have shot him Right away – Not wait for him to try to escape in his car”.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.