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DaasYochid: What did those guys calling themselves NK today (who actually have no right to the name) do that you refer to them as reshoim? I agree with your wacko description, but the other term requires specific defined activities.
DaasYochid: What did those guys calling themselves NK today (who actually have no right to the name) do that you refer to them as reshoim? I agree with your wacko description, but the other term requires specific defined activities.
Does going to Iran and meet with Ahmadinejad count?
zsdad: No. Meeting a rasha doesn’t make one a rasha.
How about meeting MANY Rashas in Iran at a Holocaust Denial conference
Lets not forget appearing ON SHABBOS On the DIAS (They did not speak) at a Pro-Palestian Rally In Washington DC
As I said, meeting them doesn’t make one. Chillul Shabbos is another story, but it doesn’t sound like they did that from what you said. (Certainly not most). DY?
The Rally occured on April 22, 2002, that was attended.
No matter what the cause, its definatly Chilul Shabbos to appear at a rally of some sort (Minimum Ovda D’Chol). They just didnt march, they appeared on the Dais.
GAW,
Every shittah in this debate probably can be traced to a single source.
Certainly, anti-zionism is central to Satmar, but it’s far from their sole reason to exist. It’s a part of their vision (or version, for the cynics) of pure, unadulterated Yiddishkeit, but not the only part.
Does going to Iran and meet with Ahmadinejad count?
How about meeting MANY Rashas in Iran at a Holocaust Denial conference
Yes (they didn’t merely meet, they showed support).*
Lets not forget appearing ON SHABBOS On the DIAS (They did not speak) at a Pro-Palestian Rally In Washington DC
I don’t know about that.
zahavasdad – when oh when will you stop lying constantly?
Everyone knows that a fringe group of 15 people have been to Iran. they have no support from any Satmar Rebbe, or Eida Chareidis. Letters condemning their actions were published on this website.
Keep up the lying and outright fabrications….and then quickly scurry away into the darkness.
He didn’t say it was Satmar or Eidah. I brought up NK paranthetically, and that is what his response was about. Save your attacks for where they are warranted.
DY?
see * above
DY: That makes one a halachic rasha?
Every shittah in this debate probably can be traced to a single source.
Certainly, anti-zionism is central to Satmar, but it’s far from their sole reason to exist. It’s a part of their vision (or version, for the cynics) of pure, unadulterated Yiddishkeit, but not the only part.
DY: I don’t think you understood my point. Chassidish Rebbes are much more likely to follow the shitta of the previous Rebbe because of who he was (and his status of Rebbe flowing from his predecessor). This is opposed to a Litvish Rov (e.g. Rav Chaim Shlita), whose status is not dependent on who his Father or FIL were (even though they were Gedolim). Therefore someone like Rav Chaim has the latitude to disagree with those before him, while a Chassidish Rebbe has much less room to disagree.
???? ?’ ?”?
How does picking up a hand to hit someone relate to them?
GAW: Can you bring even an example of Rav Chaim disagreeing with the Steipler or of Rav Shmuel Auerbach disagreeing with Rav Shlomo Zalman — especially on a large notable issue?
GAW: Can you bring even an example of Rav Chaim disagreeing with the Steipler or of Rav Shmuel Auerbach disagreeing with Rav Shlomo Zalman — especially on a large notable issue?
I am not knowledgable regarding the Israeli Gedolim and their shittos, but was just using Rav Chaim as an example. Perhaps you could help me out here.
Edit, thought of one possible. What does Rav Shmuel Aurbach hold regarding Hetter Mechira?
GAW,
No, I do understand your overall point, but I would hardly count R’ Chaim’s shitah as his own, and the Steiper’s was really the Chazon Ish’s. In E.Y., the shitah of the gedolim won’t change, (but the application might change because of circumstances).
Where there is some divergence in the Yeshivish’e shitah is between the Briskers and everyone else. Rav Schach, who was very close with the Rov, supported elections (obviously), while the Briskers kept away.
GAW: Can you bring even an example of Rav Chaim disagreeing with the Steipler or of Rav Shmuel Auerbach disagreeing with Rav Shlomo Zalman — especially on a large notable issue?
Rav Moshe Feinstein assured Heart transplants, I have heard that Rav Tendler has permitted it because they are now safer than Rav Moshe assured them (He held that the doctor who removed the heart from the patient halachically killed them)
ZD,
There were two reasons for R’ Moshe’s psak.
1) Killing the recipient. This has likely changed.
2) Killing the donor. This has likely not changed.
Rav Moshe’s opinion is best represented by his son R’ Dovid.
Rabbi Tendler is no raya. Besides not being a son, he differs from Rav Moshe frequently.
DY
I was talking about the recipient. I dont know Rav Dovid’s opinion on the matter , only Rav Tendler.
A Son-in-Law can follow a father in Law, Rav Menachem Scheerson was the Son-In-Law of Rav Yitzchok Schnnerson
And The Steipler followed his Brother-in-Law the Chazon Ish. So it is possible for Shvers to follow.
ZD,
Of course it’s possible, but there are many (myself included), who feel that in this case, he doesn’t, even though he often claims to.
ZD -“I am very well aware of Ellu V Ellu
However you said it was Assur to vote according to all Gedolim.
If you had said my rebbe forbids it, that is another issue”
Funny you must be dyslexic, at least when it comes to reading Charedims’ posts. This is what I posted:
“It’s Ossur to vote in Israeli elections! Period. End of story.”
Nowhere does it say “all Gedolim”. It doesn’t even mention anyone; so the most you can assume is that this is my opinion. Instead of asking me what my opinion is based on -you make outlandish comments about R’ Chaim Shlita. And btw, you don’t have to ask me what my opinion is based on now, because I already listed those Gedolim on page 1.
Polls are coming in
Prelimary results have Likud at 31 , Habayit Hayedi at 12 , UTJ at 6 , Yesh Atid at 19 , Labor at 17 ,Shas at 11 , Meretz at 7 Tzipi Livni at 7
“Coming in”?
For an hour now…
Channel 2
Channel 10
Channel 1
Yes, Y. W. E., Thank you very much for keeping us informed!
I, for one, noticed the quick coverage. And I’m most likely not the only one.
Interesting: The OP was pretty spot on with every prediction of his.
No way to tell if results are good or bad for Charedi Parties
Depends who Bibi Coalitions with
He could go Likud-Habyit Hayudi-Shas-UTJ for about 61 seats , Shas wont got without UTJ
Or he could go
Likud-Habit Hayudi-Yesh Atid for about 62 seats
Bibi is a polititian. Only the first 61 seats matter, those parties are in the strongest postion, everyone else gets scraps
He will play Shas/UTJ vs Yesh Atid off each other who will make the most concessions and be amicable to the majority of Likud voters.
How about a complete shocker/earthquake coalition where Shas teams up with Lapid and Labor, putting Netanyahu into a retirement home!!
I’m really disappointed in the results.
Yesh Atid joining the government can have terrible implications. Lapid, their leader, wants to end Orthodox control of marriage, divorce and conversion. If he succeeds, the number of mamzeirim in E”Y will skyrocket, chas v’shalom.
Achosid copied and pasted his predictions from Reuters.
OK, my predictions:
Likud-Beiteinu 31
Bayit Yehudi – 12
Shas +UTJ 18
Which already gives him a majority.
In addition, he may go with:
Yesh Atid – 19
Labor – 17
Hatnua – 10
I think he’s going to go for the center-left coalition. If he does, he can afford to drop Bayit Yehudi, which will make Obama happy.
613: What disappoints you?
Sushee: I was hoping for Bayit Yehudi to get 15, Otzma 2, Shas 13 and UTJ 8. So as to force Netanyahu into a right wing, Chareidi coalition.
He is not going to drop Bayit Hayudi. They are natural allies and are fairly close politically and ideolically.
he cannot have Shas/UTJ and Yesh Aitd in a coalition, Yesh Atid #1 issue seems to be the draft.
Nobody else can form a coalition as the #2 party is Yesh Atid, There isnt enough votes to get
UTJ never had 8 since ’48. That was an unrealistic hope.
zsd: On that token, Yesh Atid cannot be in a coalition with Bayit Yehudi, as they have opposite demands on the peace process with the Arabs.
So if Shas + Yesh doesn’t either work, Bibi has no viable coalition.
I think Bibi might not be able to actually form a coalition and Yesh Atid will form one with the center/left.
Does anyone know how many votes Mr. Amsallem and Rav Yitzchok got and how many seats they caused Shas to lose?
According to the Jerusalem Post the first person Bibi called was Lapid.
It depends what Yesh Atids #1 issue is going to be, Will it be the draft / Payments to Yeshivas or will it be the settlements.
Which one are they willing to compromise on, that will decide if they join the government and who will be the other party
Zahavasdad: the latest polls show Likud up to 33. So
Likud 33
Bayit Yehudi 12
Shas/UTJ 18
Is already a pretty safe coalition of 63 seats.
Sushee, I’m wondering about that too. Amsallem got 1% and Rav Amnon Yitzchak got less than that.
Sushee : You can view all the official results on the governments website –
http://votes-19.gov.il/nationalresults
nice please let link through
How many seats did they cause Shas to lose?
Achoside: Well, part was from The Forward. I knew the phrase “narrow, right-wing coalition” resonated from somewhere. I’m not disturbed that it happened – just cite your sources!
I agree with you that overall, it was a good result for the chareidim.
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