Israel LAnguages

MH does have its roots in Loshon HaKodesh, but its adjustments of it make it the worst of both worlds – since it has Loshon HaKodesh elements we dont want to use it for our mundane purposes – and since it has non-Loshon HaKodesh elements, we do not want to accept it as our national language. So to speak MH is one thing, but to say it is the “language of the Jew” is just not so. Neither is Yiddish the “language of the Jew”, any more than a black hat is the “clothing of a Jew.” But just as the purpose of the hat is “lo shinu es malbushayhen” – we want to dress differently than the seculars – thep purpose of Yiddish is “lo shinu es shemom” – we want to talk differently than the seculars.

There is no Mitzvah to speak in Loshon HaKodesh. Without the modernizations, its not much of a speakable language (we don’t have that many words). And if you do add in a bunch of words and tweak it, youll just end up with another Yiddish, but based on Loshon HaKodesh, which is only a bad thing, not good, as per above. Plus, the Responsa Chavtzeles HaSharon (I:OH:10) writes that Loshon HaKodesh is only Kodesh if its used exclusively for holy things. Once you start using it to speak mundane things, its not holy anymore. It’s like an Aron HaKodesh – once you use it to hold your model racing car collection and not Sifrei Torah, its not an Aron HaKodesh anymore.

In the Sefer B’Tuv Yerushalayim it relates that the Maharil Diskin refused to speak to a certain Talmid Chacham of Yerushalayim because he used to spek only Loshon HaKodesh. Said the Maharil Diskin, “For generations we are accostomed to speaking Yiddish, not Loshon HaKodesh.” He saw in the speaking of Loshon HaKodesh a contradiction to historical percedent, which originated based on the ideas in the aforementioned issues. The Chasam Sofer is in his comments on Shulchan Aruch, OH #65 – the reason we do not speak Loshon HaKodesh is to prevent undesirable people from speaking it, plus to prevent its being used in Tameh places. The posek Hagaon Rav Akiva Yosef Shlezinger in his Sefer Lev HaIvri says we should not change our spoken toungue from Yiddish, and he draws parallels with our usage of Yiddish in modern times, to our usage of Aramaic in ancient times.

What about giving a Shiur or Dvar Torah in Loshon Kodesh? The reason that was not done is because Loshon HaKodesh is very hard to use in a speaking manner – its much more suited to writing. Would you start a sentence with “hinei”? And even when Divrei Torah are writen in Seforim, they add in many Aramaic words and expression, to the point where someone who only know Hebrew but not Gemora language would have a hard time understanding it. There simply aren’t enough words or expressions in Loshon HaKodesh to do that. Its awkward even when it can be done. So since theres really no reason to do it – there is no Mitzvah to speak Loshon HaKodesh – but there is a Mitzvah to understand your learning as best as you can, it was deemed by Klal Yisroel better to use foregn language – or at least a combination of Loshon HaKodesh and foreign language, which is really what is needed to get a complex Torah idea across.

Remember – the Gemora itself was done in Aramaic – a foreign language, and not Loshon HaKodesh. And thats because it was more easily understood. Foreign languages still are. And the point of the Chavtzeles HaSharon by saying that Loshon HaKodesh loses its holiness when spoken for mundane matters was that doing so is a Bizayon for the Holy language and it therefore should not be done. Historical precendent is valid only when the past generations could have done somethign but clearly chose not to. Speaking Loshon HaKodesh was an available option for them just as it is for us – and they could have created a “speaking language” out of it if they wanted – just like they did recently. The fact that they didnt shows that they chose not to. We should, too. But Loshon HaKodesh – with the Aramaic and foreign words mixed in, which is what is used for Torah – is not really speakable. But it woks best from the written Torah word. Its not a coincidence that after thousands of years, those who finally came up with the idea to speak Hebrew were atheist Apikorsim who did it specifically for heretical reasons – because in order to be a “nation” you need a language.

Avira, I read them. (And I’m sure I’m not the only one.)

I presume Moshe, Shmuel, David spoke some sort of Hebrew despite it being a difficult language to talk in?!

also, you are looking at it from your own perspective. how about several millions of Jews who did not master Gemora? Israeli Jews have a way higher chance of eventually finding their home than American. and Ivrit is part of that.

Name me one place in the world outside of Israel where Hebrew is spoken in the street by the masses

@rightwriter, read what I am writing and answer that, I never said anything about seforim

RW > I understand that the Hebrew we speak today is more modern, but how can you say its a new invented language?

Modern Hebrew was revived by early Zionists as a way to forge an identity separate from both religious Jews on one side and from those who wanted to build socialism for everyone, rather than just for Jews, on the other.

Current Israeli Jews are 4 generations from those halutzim, and most of that ideology is dead. So, the question now should be – is there anything inherently wrong with using modern Hebrew? some of the arguments against it are reasonable, others sound like a way to fight those last-generation battles.

Rw, the language of a Jew is the rambam, the ketsos, the ben ish chai… Whichever way you pronounce the words therein; the Torah is our language, the Torah is our essence. We’re not elevated by using lashon kodesh for mundane things – which is commonly mistranslated as *the holy language”…, the proper translation is “the language of holy things”

Avira > We’re not elevated by using lashon kodesh for mundane things

It certainly feels this way for us, but we got to admit that Jews used loshen hakodesh for all mundane things for centuries, both talmidei chachamim and amei haaretz. Also tzdukim and gibonim. And Avodim. And silly ketanim, such as naarim ketanim running after Elisha. The bear was probably also Hebrew-speaking.

So I’ll stir the pot.
First, we of all generations ought to question the idea that Hebrew, modern or other, must be spoken to be “real” or “national.” In our generation, people may communicate more by writing than by speaking, as we are doing now. Jews across exile communities did this for centuries — and in shu”t and international trade, to give two examples, the language was Hebrew. Today, whole languages exist that aren’t spoken at all: computer languages, sign languages, etc.
Second, of course masses of Jews spoke Hebrew regularly: in davening. Apart from the shemone esre, davening is loud. There’s an etymological notion that the very word “daven” comes from a Germanic word that gives us the English “din,” as in putting up a din. And should we argue that, well, back there they just mouthed the words and didn’t understand them, I think that’s an anachronism — typical of lots of us but not of lots of them. Evidence: massive lending of Hebrew words to Yiddish and the (many) other Judeo-languages. You can’t lend what you don’t own.
Third, Jews in exile did speak Hebrew to communicate with each other when they had to.
Finally, two ironies: First, for whatever reason, the Emancipation in France was greeted by a drasha in shul in French and then in Hebrew. Ironic because the theme of the drasha was the renunciation of Jewish nationhood per Napoleon’s demands. Second, the Old Yishuv won some battles against Modern Hebrew but lost the war because it couldn’t make its case without using Modern Hebrew.

@RW “Most Jews arent Israeli and speak primarily the language of the land or Yiddish if they come from Ashkenaz roots.”
On the we agree 100%

Rw, I think there are way more obscure expressions in nach, not even counting Aramaic.. maybe some native speakers of modern Hebrew can tell us which one is closer?