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So we go to the ballot soon, most likely just after pesach
We have 4 months to bash our opponents, 4 months to gamble on who will win, 4 months to build coalitions, or 4 months to ignore the subject, what are you going to do?
I will try to keep you a little bit up to date with what’s going on, at the same time try to keep away from internal frum politics
Better not to vote at all
monroeyidd:- Whom do you think you are? to advocate going against the Pesak of our Gedolim to vote @Israeli Elections. Plain & Simple:- The more religious votes, the more seats in the next Israeli Kenesset for the religious parties, and then the more improvement in edicts for we religious Yehudim.
That’s the psak from my rebbe the logic being if you don’t take from them you don’t owe them anything like what’s happening with the draft they have a point if you’re benefiting then help out like this I have nothing to do with the government and that’s it I don’t owe them anything and they don’t owe me anything
Brisk doesn’t vote in elections.
Elections are in 2016, not 2015.
monroeyidd
I won’t tell you not to listen to your rebbe, and I hope he has the authority to pasken such shailos.
Here’s two arguments to the contrary, a religious one and a social one.
1) The Chazon Ish wrote that by casting a vote for a party that is shomer Torah and mitzvos one fulfills his obligation to protest chillul shem Shomayim.
2) You may not owe them or they owe you, but you owe it to Klal Yisroel to do your part in limiting their ability to harm the Torah and its keepers.
Kahana Tzedek
Elections are good entertainment, even in this case when the results are probably going to simimlar to the last election (Nationalist parties in control, but forced to form a coalition with the hareidim and/or the centrist block consisting of ex-Likudniks).
And at least the Israelis have elections. Many countries have other ways of picking leaders (see neighboring Syria for a popular alternative method).
Hi voos epes!
Here’s to hoping the Charaidim get in the coalition this time around.
The best way to protest chillul sheim shamayim is with signs not participating in the elections
4 months to ignore the subject
SiDi™
So where it is written in the Torah that to vote , Its a Chilul Shamayim
monroeyidd
“The best way to protest chillul sheim shamayim is with signs not participating in the elections”
That’s your approach. The Chazon Ish disagreed. Why don’t you ask your rov what you should do?
I have
I dont know about signs but the Brisker Rov didn’t vote nor do his talmidim and yeshiva.
The Brisker Rov’s hanhogos do not obligate anybody besides his talmidim and those for whom he paskened. The majority of the gedolim disagreed with him.
Toldos ahron doesn’t vote either
monroeyidd
Finding scattered minority opinions will not change the fact that the majority of manhigei Yisroel hold that anyone who can must vote in Israeli elections. Not doing so can only be justified if one is a talmid of one of the few sages alive TODAY who disagree (see mishna Eidiyos 5:7) AND he receives a specific psak from his rov, the same one to whom he turns for all other shailos of m’deoraisa and m’derabonon, that this is what he should be doing.
Listen you want to vote fine but when they want to draft you in the army…..
monroeyidd
If they do, it just might be because some other people didn’t vote also. Do you think that if all the MKs were secular they wouldn’t want to draft the yeshiva bochurim?
The frum parties are there to enforce shnayim ochazin, not to practice hashutfin sherotzu.
BTW logical reasoning is really worthless against the psak of the majority of gedolei Yisroel. Even if I was sure that my voting would bring calamity upon me I’m not competent enough to decide one way or the other. After a psak (in either direction), all discussion is only b’geder l’hagdil Torah v’yadir. Beis Shammai b’mokom Beis Hillel eino mishna.
Of course if one is following his manhig’s instructions TO vote, he must similarly follow his manhig’s instructions on WHOM to vote for.
Monroeyidd, why do you feel you can define the limits of your interaction with the government? They’ll draft you wether you vote or not
Oy, it’s painful to watch Voos epes/bp yidd/ I don’t even remember what else ruin yet another thread.
It’s not ruined at all
I enjoy it. Because it is really interesting to see how somebody can…..
You would have done better with a different username. Like EIEIO, or EggplantSalad950.
Lol
I don’t get the whole discussion. just vote who will be the best for you.
Tzviki,
The discussion is on whether or not frum Jews should vote in Eretz Yisrael.
why not vote?
Read this thread and you’ll find out!
He’s from Monroe. The scattered minority opinion over there is probably TO vote, if such an opinion even exists there at all.
I don’t think anyone would dare say that in monroe
if you don’t vote for the people you like then the people you don’t like will win. what am I missing here?
What if you don’t like anyone or the government?
kj chusid: That’s a common issue if every election, including in the U.S. You choose the best of those running.
The bottom line is if you don’t vote, you get the worst of the worst. Can you say Obama boys and girls?
But we don’t want to cooperate with the tzionim
If you dont want to co-operate, Dont use their Roads, Their Money, Their Policeman , Their Airport etc
“we don’t want to cooperate with the tzionim”
Yes you do, as long as they give you money!
“if you don’t vote, you get the worst of the worst. Can you say Obama boys and girls? “
Obama’s election in 2008 was with the highest percentage turnout since 1968 and the highest numerical turnout ever.
We don’t take money from tzionim either
“Obama’s election in 2008 was with the highest percentage turnout since 1968 and the highest numerical turnout ever. “
Just shows you can fool most of the people, most of the time. What he said, his background and associations meant nothing. A good speech with a teleprompter, a leftist media and his race were the winning factors.
“We don’t take money from tzionim either”
If that were only completely true. Do you use any government services that are either free or subsidized? Do you pay for your own trash to be picked up? Do you go into the grocery and say, “I want to pay the full price for those staples that the government subsidizes? What about health insurance? and on and on.
I live In Monroe but the satmar chassidim in ey don’t take any benefits
If the Satmar in EY use a Road, Are protected by the Police, Have Running water or Electricity or use the airport thet are taking benefits
KJ Chusid: I don’t know if you really exist , when I click on your name it turns me right back to Yeshiva world? Anyway, the point I want to make is as follows:
You seem to be new here? The atmosphere is not one of A Monroe upbringing, not too many Satmer Chasidim on here, so proceed with caution? Do I need to elaborate?
No that’s not how it works ask some senior members about me for more info
“A good speech with a teleprompter”
Other than California Gov. Jerry Brown, who ad-libs almost all his speeches and doesn’t employ speechwriters other than his wife, what other politician in America doesn’t use a teleprompter to deliver prepared speeches that someone else wrote? For example, the best speeches of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush were written by Peggy Noonan.
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