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I wasn’t talking about an objective maaleh. I meant it’s a maaleh for me.
This wasn’t my original point, but I do think it’s a problem when guys won’t go out with girls their own age or even a few years younger then them (in some cases, they will only go out with girls who are 10 or 20 years younger because they only want someone who is under 40 regardless of their own age). It comes from their wanting to have children, which is a maaleh, but I still don’t think they should be so picky about age. The result is that most of the time, they keep getting older without getting married, so that doesn’t really help them to have children. It’s their choice, but it does bother me.
There are all these campaigns to get guys in their 20’s to go out with older girls, but I don’t think anyone has started a campaign to get guys in their 40’s to go out with girls in their age range.
Health: My two cents of advice to you: try to put yourself in the other person’s shoes for a brief moment, so you can at least understand their point of view. Besides for its immediate benefits, it may even help you in your quest, and in life in general.
Mammele -“Health: My two cents of advice to you: try to put yourself in the other person’s shoes for a brief moment, so you can at least understand their point of view. Besides for its immediate benefits, it may even help you in your quest, and in life in general”
It’s very interesting how you can give advice to s/o you don’t know!
As a matter of fact, I’m trying to understand their POV by posting questions to them, since I don’t know them in person!
LU -“I do think it’s a problem when guys won’t go out with girls their own age or even a few years younger then them (in some cases”
Why is that a problem? That’s the reality! Read my topic – “Who wants to be a Tzzdakis like Rus”?
Thanks for proving my point with your last post. Although I meant my advice for your benefit, I realize I shouldn’t have bothered.
I’ll try to remember this lesson and not criticize you in the future.
Health:
“These assumptions make no sense. Either a person can have kids or they can’t. Any woman can be tested if they are still able to have children. I personally would go out with s/o my age, if they can prove they can have children!”
and
LU -“I do think it’s a problem when guys won’t go out with girls their own age or even a few years younger then them (in some cases”
Why is that a problem? That’s the reality!”
It may be reality, but it is still a problem- for the older girls whose dating opportunities plummet after a certain age, and for the older guys who insist on dating much younger girls, who turn them down because the guy is so much older! Yes the guy has a chiyuv to have children, but for some reason he did not feel that a pressing enough reason to get married all these years…
In terms of testing- without going into inappropriate content, fertility is quite complicated, depends on lots of factors, often in context of the couple, and there are B”H many solutions available today that can help what would otherwise seem hopeless. It would be a gross violation of tznius if this was asked before marriage. Plenty of younger women also have issues- should this then be a common requirement on a shidduch resume?
Lilmod-
the more I read your posts, the more I admire your strength and attitude. I hope this difficult stage passes soon, and that you do find your zivug, whoever he may be, and he will appreciate the wonderful person that you are.
WinnieThepooh – thanks!
Mammele – Thank you for sticking up for me!
Health – I appreciate the fact that you do seem to be making an effort to respond more politely to my posts.
Mammele -“Although I meant my advice for your benefit, I realize I shouldn’t have bothered.”
You should’ve realized that from the get go! Even if I knew you in person, who gave you the right to criticize me? I wasn’t posting to you!
WTP -“It may be reality, but it is still a problem- Yes the guy has a chiyuv to have children, but for some reason he did not feel that a pressing enough reason to get married all these years..”
Why don’t you Dan the guys L’caf Zecus? Maybe it wasn’t his fault that he didn’t get married? A lot of guys have problems getting dates because of people speaking bad!
“In terms of testing- without going into inappropriate content, fertility is quite complicated, depends on lots of factors, often in context of the couple, and there are B”H many solutions available today that can help what would otherwise seem hopeless.”
I wasn’t talking about people with medical issues, but with the normal biology. At a certain time in a woman’s life, they usually can’t have any more kids.
“It would be a gross violation of tznius if this was asked before marriage. Plenty of younger women also have issues- should this then be a common requirement on a shidduch resume?”
It would not! As a matter of fact, a guy or girl should tell the Shadchim if they have medical issues, especially if they know it could affect their ability to have children!
Health
I am not talking about people with medical issues either. If someone knows they have a problem, they would have to tell. I just don’t think that women/girls should be obligated to find out if they have a problem- even if they are older. Women can still have kids well into their 40s, and it will vary for each woman. Ultimately, it is up to Hashem to decide who has children, and there is no guarantee that a 25 year old will have children either. Statistics might say something about older women and fertility, but Hashem is not bound by those statistics. As long as one does not test, one can hope for the best (and get medical help), and hashem can bring that about without it being considered an open miracle. But testing is just looking for problems, and should only be done if necessary after marriage. Yes, there will come a point unfortunately that a woman can no longer have kids, but that does not mean that older guys (45+) need only look for spouses that are under 30.
By the way, I did not mean to be judgemental about the guys- I was afraid someone would take it that way. I was just thinking, that the importance of the mitzva of pirya v’rivya should be just as pressing when they are younger, and that if men really feel the urgency of the mitzva, they might consider their options better when they are younger, so as to avoid the unrealistic scenario of expecting women to marry someone 10-15 years their senior. Girls in their upper twenties/thirties are told all the time that at their age they should not be “so picky” and they should think out of the box. Well, maybe guys at that age should also be told, that the mitzva is important, and to fulfill it, maybe they should start thinking out of the box too, instead of relying on the fact that they can always date girls in their 20s no matter how old they are. Just my humble two cents.
WTP -“Yes, there will come a point unfortunately that a woman can no longer have kids, but that does not mean that older guys (45+) need only look for spouses that are under 30.”
I agree.
Also, I have no problem with a guy who refuses to go out with a 45yo and older woman, unless they have documented proof that they can have kids!
Comlink-x: “You should be looking for someone who will help you grow.
But if that higher person follows the same logic,
then they won’t be looking for you!”
Someone who will help you grow does not = a higher person. It is probably someone on the same level as you who will help you grow. Actually, it is probably someone who is a bit better than you in some ways and lower than you in others.
What do you mean when you say “tafkid?”
I’m not sure how to answer that “al regel achas”, but basically, when a Jew gets married, the point is to fulfill a tafkid. This is especially true of a lady whose purpose is to be an “ezer kenegdo”. The precise way she fulfills that tafkid will depend on many factors, such as who she marries and what his needs are. It seems to me that being married to a widower would entail a somewhat different role than being married to a never-married guy would, since his needs are different and since the relationship is somewhat different. I could be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me. For example, I know a girl who married a widower, and her husband often talks to her about his first wife. She is okay with it, and I think she sees it as part of her fulfilling her role as his ‘ezer k’negdo’.
Sorry, comlink-x, by tafkid, I mean “role”. In this case, I mean her role as a wife. I don’t really mean “life purpose” because your “life purpose” can involve more than your role as a wife.
Comlink x -“I don’t have the greatest of social graces, but this sounds rather rude to me. (And this is a public forum, so anyone
has the right to respond relevantly to any post.)”
I’ve posted in the other topic – right means Moral right!
How come you criticized me and not her?!?
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