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Hi. I’m a chassidish kallah. I didn’t go out on a date, we just had “beshow” for approx. 20 minutes. And that’s it! (he’s the only guy I met.)Now, he really does seem to be a great guy and everything. But…I’m really nervous. I haven’t a clue who he is! And neither does he know who I am. It’s so nervewracking! Who says were right for each other? (we don’t talk/text during the engagement.)
So here’s my question:
With the shidduch crisis going on in the Yeshivishe Velt, is this the better way? After all, there isn’t such a big crisis in the Chassidish Velt.
This question is a powder keg waiting to explode. I’ll help light the fuse 🙂
I think that chassidim have a different view of the relationship between a man and his wife, and on marriage in general. They believe that love does not come beforehand, it only comes after a marriage, when the couple spends years together. When they first get married, they definitely don’t love each other. They probably don’t even like each other – they don’t know each other!
When I got engaged, I didn’t love my wife. She didn’t love me. We admitted it to each other. We liked each other a lot, and knew we were definitely compatible. By the time we got married, I did love her, and she loved me. That was because we spent time together during our engagement, and our relationship deepened.
A chassidish friend of mine told me of one other issue in the chassidish world. Divorce is so taboo there, that even if someone is not happy at all in their marriage, they will not get a divorce. They think they will be excluded from the community if they do. Sadly, sometimes they are right. Chassidim may have a lower divorce rate, but they don’t have a higher rate of happy marriages.
I think it depends on how you grew up. I grew up litvish and there was no way I would marry a guy I saw for 20 minutes. No way.
But then again, to people more modern than me- the way I dated might be crazy and no way would they be able to do that either. I dated my husband (he was my 7th boy) for 8 dates and then spoke about 3 times a week and texted whenever we felt like it.
So, basically, I think it depends on your upbringing and your cultural norms.
I assume it works well because you trust your parents and they know what is best for you. And I assume that this boy checked out in their minds to be the right fit for your nature and personality.
I don’t see how beshows are the answer to the shidduch crisis. And although I know many chassidishe couples who “beshowed” and are very happily married, I’m just curious why you agreed to marry someone if “you haven’t a clue who he is! And neither does he know who I am.” There are plenty of chassidishe girls who have 2-3 beshows, 2+ hours each, so they can still meet beshow-style, but have a clue who the other is….
It seems to me that there are advantages and disadvantages to either side.
Your nervousness is natural, even if you know more about him. It’s the biggest commitment that you’ll ever make. Most (if not all) people don’t really know their spouse until they have been married for a while.
Have you explained your nervousness to your parents?
Would it be OK for you to ask for more time together?
What about on the phone?
I’m fascinated by the ‘chassidish way’ of “dating”. I’m not chassidish and find that i would never be able to “date” the ‘chassidish way’. However, that’s just the way i was brought up. (litvish)
I dont think that dating gets you any closer to knowing the truth about someone than a sit in. I’m married a couple of years and still learn new things about my husband every day. Its a growingand learning experience and i wish you the best and much hatzlacha!
The Chasidish was is how yidden successfully got married for thousands of years and is still the best way today.
Mazal Tov!
I don’t think there’s a silver bullet answer to your question. The topic of matchmaking is a rather complex one. Just think about the fact that according to chazal, Hasham is –since he completed the creation of the universe– sitting and matchmaking. Think about this for a second, Hasham who created such an incredible complex universe, so complicated that we hardly touched the surface in understanding it, think of laws of physics or perhaps more closer to home, the human body (all its organs, the millions of lines of code in trillions of cells), a creation we will NEVER truly begin to understand, yet, the same Hasham is sitting and matchmaking! How complex must matchmaking be. Do you believe its Hasham who matched you up with this boy?
I can give you a loooong deep philosophical answer on opposite gender gravitation and the philosophy behind it, but i doubt you care. The bottom line is, one can never learn about another person until they live and spend life together. All the dating in the world wont get you near the results. People can date for months and months and yet still be in for an unpleasant surprise.
Btw, how old are you and the boy?
i think that dating/beshowing is our hishtadlus in finding a zivug. lets be honest- you wont really know your wife for at least a while after your married, and you wont actually have a deep love for her. in that case whatever your mesorah/rabbonim holds is the right amount of hishtadlus, thats good for you (if your takeh a part of this sort of community and not just doing it for cultural norm). i would add that a milion things need to shtim to be happy, how many can you learn from dating? its up to hashem; if youve done your hishtadlus your in good hands.
This works (somewhat) in the chassidishe velt where there is zero mingling between men and women. The only contact with a member of the opposite gender is their immediate family- not even cousins. They dont watch tv or the latest episode of the bachelorette.
As such, the only preconceived notions on marriage are what they are taught in yeshiva/BY, which are all Torah oriented.
Also, the amount of research and “checking out” that is done before they date is far more than anyone else. Prior to them meeting the parents have a pretty solid picture of the boy/girl.
When boy/girl meet, if something doesnt strike them immediately like looks, manner of speech, personality etc then time to break a plate. But there are times that in those few minutes one of them decides that s/he is not right for him/her.
People who date do not necessarily know their mates better than you do. The Chassidisher way has been working for many years, though it is not to say it can work for everybody.The fact remains, talking to your choson in engagement will not let you know him better. You don’t really know anyone best until you live with them!Don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. I had one child that spoke to her choson( because of their request) , it was absolutely ridiculous and she will be the first one to admit it! Mazel Tov!! Wishing you a great engagement!
I would say the chassidishe way is better if you’re a chassid! If it’s what’s done in your community, you grew up knowing and expecting that it’s how you’re going to meet your husband etc, then most of the time, it’s going to work. Not as good of an idea if you were not raised chassidishe.
I don’t get the connection between the first half and second of your OP.
Workaholic- I don’t understand your question. A Beshow works that you meet the boy once BECAUSE THE PARENTS DO AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF RESEARCH BEFOREHAND.
If that’s the case by you, then look forward to a great marriage and fear not. If you “just met once” without doing all that research, then it’s a problem.
What research do Chasidim do that Litvaks don’t do?
being that I just got engaged and im not chassidish so I went out on dates I will tell you that I think I had the best of both worlds. my parents did a tremendous amount of research and so did his….but we still dated. by the time we went out we really knew a lot about each other and it went very very fast. I think the chassidish way is very good for people that grew up with it. its very healthy for them but very unhealthy for someone who is not chassidish to try it and think its going to work for them. its not a one-size-fits-all kinda thing. I have a very close friend who also only met the guy once and is engaged for over a year to him (getting married soon) but she has no more doubts and nervous feelings than I do.
Peacemaker: I can’t speak for everyone but i will say, I look at the important things, like everything I can find out about the prospective boy or girl. I do NOT CARE what tablecloth they use on Shabbos, I DO NOT care if they use crystal at their table and we don’t demand a car , house etc for our boys. Family does count but to a normal degree!
a mamin: That still doesn’t answer my question of what do Chasidim research more, that Litvaks don’t research.
Workaholic- I obviously didn’t mean that marriage is guaranteed to work if you researched, but that much is in your hand. Some of it you gotta leave to Hashem!
I can tell you one thing for sure- whose tisch they attend.
Personally my opinion is that the person in the world who loves and cares about you most right now is your mother. Seeing as nobody posting on here is your mother(unless your mother posts) I would advise you to talk to your mother about these thought and feelings as opposed to strangers who dont have anything against you but also have nothing to do with your life. The coffeeroom is to talk and get opinions however you should not ask advice on life-altering topics. You need to talk to someone who really knows and cares about you!
This goes for all other topics too. It drives me crazy when I see questions that can change a persons life. Do you go to random strangers on the street and ask if you should marry a boy you just met?? NO because thats ridiculous
I think its a little silly to say that someone who goes on at least 8 dates and speaks to each other on the phone while engaged knows their chasson the same as someone who’s met their chosson for 20 minutes. That’s total baloney.
Litvish parents do just as much research as their chassidish counterparts. I think its just the way you’re brought up that helps you adjust to knowing the guy for 20 minutes or knowing him for 8 dates before you get engaged.
Btw, workaholic- if you’re feeling uneasy- definitely ask for either a phonecall or another sit in.
workaholic: I never said it’s lower. I said it’s not better than the norm. It’s on par with everyone else. In the chassidic world, people are just more likely to live with an unhappy marriage than get divorced.
the way chassidish check in is much “deeper” than litvich u can not compare by the time the boy and girl meet they dont need to talk they know everything about each other all ready all their friends neighbors who their sib married …what they like to do what they do in spare time sometimes this “checking out” could take weeks
golda and tevye from fiddler on the roof were a shidduch too and they loved each other. remember the song….do you love me……………???
The Chasidim I’m aquainted with meet around three times, sometimes more, for around an hour. Some speak a little after the engagement, some don’t.
By the way, it’s very common to have doubts. That happens even when you do talk. Once married, that’s over — or it should be. Benjamin Franklyn said, “Before marriage keep your eyes wide open, afterwards keep them half closed.”
Why do the Chasidim typically have very long engagement periods?
Depot- because they get engaed very young.
feif un – They believe that love does not come beforehand, it only comes after a marriage, when the couple spends years together
Any sources to prove this info? we got engaged through the traditional chassidic method and it definitely didn’t take us years to cultivate a beautiful loving marriage b”h. all the hard work my parents put into finding out if my future wife was indeed compatible with my personality, views and dreams were not for naught.
of coarse chassidishe are in for surprises after marriage, but so is everyone, including the secular world! and with divorce being the very last option, we give our marriages a chance to stick it out when the going gets rough. there are many instances in our circles where couples matured and grew after clashes that would be very likely to lead to divorce in other crowds.(divorce is not a total no-no when situation gets really bad, though. workaholic’s divorced sibling proves that.)
Shlomo Hamelech wisely said in Mishlei ?? ?? ????? ???? ???? – love blocks all sins. when choosing a partner to share life with, we do not need love to blind us.the parents, thinking without the natural opposite gender attraction getting in the way, choose someone their child is likely to love and eventually come to look at with “eyes half closed”. the child then goes ahead and sees if initial attraction is present, and if so they have as many good chances to have a beautiful life together as anyone, with syatte dishmaye.
You can’t love somone you don’t really know, be it
litvish, chassidish, Sefardi, Ashkenazi…
Of course we don’t love them before really getting to know to know them, but we ask from people who do know them to see if it’s probable that we’ll love them.
You usually get to know each other after the wedding.
workaholic- Does your family know you hang out in the CR? There are lots of men in here!!
workaholic: i’m not so familiar to the extent of not talking to the chosson before the wedding. But wouldnt your future in laws be happy that you feel good about your decision? As Haleivi pointed out, its compeletly normal to have doubts, most everyone does. But only meeting someone for such a short time does give you the right to request one more meeting. Its a major life decision after all.
Stamagoy: Sometimes airing an issue to strangers who are willing to listen and make time to listen and respond is easier than talking to someone you know, such as this case where the OP feels uncomfortable and unsure if she should bring up the issue with her family. A stranger in the street is not ready to stop sit down and listen and/or give advice. As opposed to CR posters who sign in to listen and give advice.
yungerman1- was wondering the same thing. if you are that chassidish why are you here?
The benefit of discussing even a personal issue in the CR is not that you will get advice to follow blindly. The point is to hear ideas and perhaps be convinced of a certain approach or to gain appreciation for your own.
Fief Un- you dropped a general stereotype bomb at Chassidim. Chassidim make up quite a broad world.
Your comment showed narrow-mindedness.
To the OP: It is different, not better or worse. There is a lot of trust in parents that goes into a Chassidish Shidduch, way more than Yeshivish. Hopefully you trust your parents, and that will help you be more confident in their decision on whom you should marry.
adorable- What gave you the impression that I am chassidish??!! I’m not!
I tell my kids after the beshow: “The decision to go ahead with this shidduch is OUR burden (based on our info), not yours. You don’t have to decide if this is the right one for you. You just have to decide if this is NOT the right one. Is there anything you find negative or off-putting about him?”
If not… Mazel Tov!
Really, the “yes” decision is too heavy a burden for a young person, let alone an infatuated one, to make on their own. The “no” decision is difficult enough.
Workaholic: Everyone has doubts, or fear. That is perfectly NORMAL! Hopefully you both have the same goals in life and want the same things, building a bayis neaman biyisroel! I imagine you already had a tenoyim or vort? So then it is inappropiate to ask for another meeting…
I tell my kids after the beshow: “The decision to go ahead with this shidduch is OUR burden (based on our info), not yours. You don’t have to decide if this is the right one for you. You just have to decide if this is NOT the right one. Is there anything you find negative or off-putting about him?”
If not… Mazel Tov!
Really, the “yes” decision is too heavy a burden for a young person, let alone an infatuated one, to make on their own. The “no” decision is difficult enough.
I like this. May you be Zoche to continue to do so, both for any children you have left to marry and your Eniklach, Bezras Hashem.
Amen, thank you.
“Really, the “yes” decision is too heavy a burden for a young person, let alone an infatuated one, to make on their own. The “no” decision is difficult enough.”
This is ridiculous. If your child is too young to make the decision on who to marry, then he/she is too young to get married.
yungerman1- sorry I mean that to be directed to workaholic. I was thinking the same thing as you.
luv2hack, don’t argue with success – or with human nature.
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