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Sounds like a scam to me – they open a bunch of ccs in your name, spend money on them and then promise to pay off the balances and give you a bunch of money from the points that they earn. Did anyone actually do this and get money from them???
They do the spending in very shady ways (e.g. they buy a refundable airline ticket, get the points, cash out the points, then cancel the ticket). It will very likely ruin your credit score, or at the very least ruin your relationship with credit card companies. If you never plan on opening a credit card or taking out a loan, it might be ok.
I’m surprised YWN even accepts their ads
Just goes to show that YWN coffee room monitors don’t censor the threads.
Meno,
You pay for an ad, you get an ad
JUST comes to show you how corrupt we are in todays generation, even yidden R”L
i.e. i can also convince you that something…. is not stealing but in truth if you thought about it & faced reality you would realize & admit to Hashem that it is pure stealing. im sure you can think of many examples right now.
how blessed i am to have woken up long ago to reality & removed myself from corruption after many years of making honesty my top priority & it still remains today
it doesnt bother me at all the fact that you know something about me in the coffeeroom thats the fake me & not the personal me
how blessed i am to have woken up long ago to reality & removed myself from corruption after many years of making honesty my top priority & it still remains today
seriously?
Free money is always a scam.
Its not the first time an ad wasnt on the up and up
There was an ad awhile ago for people to order some coins from the US Mint and they would give you some money. Turns out the coins were worth more than double what they were offering and anyone could have sold them on eBay yourself and gotten the amount for what they were worth
Zahavasdad,
I don’t think it was that simple. It doesn’t make sense that I could buy coins from the mint and immediately sell them legitimately for twice as much.
But even if that was the case, they weren’t harming anyone. At the end of the day you ended up with more than you started with, you just didn’t make as much as you could’ve.
This credit card thing is much worse. They say it’s easy money, but really they’re ruining your ability to ever get a credit card or a loan.
coffee addict,
I doubt that’s true. I’m sure there are plenty of ads that don’t make it through. I would be surprised if there weren’t
Meno, it really was that simple. The US Mint had made only a limited supply of certain coins and the demand from them was greater than the quantity. And there is a two quantity purchase maximum per person permitted by the Mint’s website. They sell out within minutes of going on sale on the US Mint website and have an immediate premium resale value.
That said, I don’t see anything wrong with offering folks to buy it and paying them a premium that doesn’t represent the full market value.
The U.S. Mint has a per-customer limit on these coin deals, so a coin dealer used this ploy to get around it. These sell out very fast, so you’d have to have a quick trigger finger to get them in the first place.
As the first poster listed, they open up credit cards in your name. That means you will have to supply some anonymous person your Social Security number. Many credit cards offer you points when you sign up. However, you must charge a certain amount on the credit card over ………(3 months, 6 months, 12 months). Since most credit card points are sold at between 1.3 and 1.4 cents per point they would have to accumulate some 75,000 points to recoup $1,000. Since they are supposedly paying for these charges then you will never see the credit card statements. What if they don’t pay the charges? The credit card issuers will come after you not them.
“What if they don’t pay the charges? The credit card issuers will come after you not them.”
What you’re saying is true, but based on what I’ve heard, this is not the concern – they do end up paying for the charges.
The issue is that they do the whole thing in shady ways like I described earlier, so you don’t owe any money but the credit card companies hate you.
That said, I don’t see anything wrong with offering folks to buy it and paying them a premium that doesn’t represent the full market value.
And that’s what really upsets me, the fact that I knew you would hold that position. It plays into/validates the negative stereo that I keep praying doesn’t exist. Why would someone who is so overly strict about Torah observance that they recommend beating your wife and keeping her home but when it comes to financial grey areas you suddenly have vision problems.
I can already anticipate your denial, as we have been thru this so many times before, but it is quite a sad reality.
Syag, there are absolutely no “financial grey areas” about this type of financial offer. It is 100% kosher, through and through. The person receiving the offer would have otherwise never engaged in this financial transaction or have otherwise purchased the coins from the Mint. So when he purchases it for $100 and sells it to the person making the offer for $150, he is making an easy $50 that he would have otherwise never had made. And the person paying $150 sells it on the market for $200, and he makes $50. So it is a win-win, with no losers and nothing remotely unkosher.
It is no different than your local grocer buying a half gallon of milk from Golden Flow for $1.25 and selling it to you for $1.75.
As far as the original case being less than market value, there is absolutely nothing illegal, unethical or “grey” in either halacha or secular law for parties to agree to a price that is less than the market value.
They harmed 2 people
There were people who really wanted that coin and were shut out because others hoarded them with back door methods to get extras
Those who bought were offered less than market value because they didnt know that the coins were worth alot more than they were being sold. And it isnt like only a coin dealer could have sold them, Anyone could have gone on ebay and sold them. Took really no time out of my life to do so
And Most importantly we are cheating ourselves. it might very well be Halachically OK, but something that if you ask a Rav, he might say, its halachically OK, but I wouldnt do it because it looks shady. Gedolim never engage in things that might be OK, but look bad
When we do things that even look shady even if they arent, we are damaging our Neshamas and we WILL cross the line from things that look shady , to things that really are shady
zd: The other people out in Louisiana or wherever that didn’t get the coins because they sold out, were not entitled to them anymore than the guy who bought it to immediately sell it. There is nothing wrong with buying it to sell it right away. And there is nothing “back door” about a bunch of guys, individually, buying within the specified purchase limits.
Those that bought it may or may not have not known what the market value is, but if not for the buyer’s offer to purchase it from them they would not have even known about the Mint coins or have cared to purchase them and they would not have purchased them to sell on eBay.
Nothing about this offer or sale looks shady in the least. If you want to find things that look shady, read up about all the tax breaks the average American business concocts to technically follow the law as written, even though they are tax loopholes. Despite them being tax loopholes, they are entirely legal, the IRS accepts them and just about every American business takes advantage of every legal tax loophole their tax preparer knows of.
The coin deal is back. Who’s in?
If this business is legitimate, why is YWN not allowing comments in their latest ad? Further why does it only mention “credit cards” in the yiddish portion of the ad and not the English?
If it looks shady it isn’t halachically okay. We are supposed to distance ourselves from even the appearance of sin.
iacisrmma
cause it is not honest but pure corruption. Proof is right in front of your eyes in the ad not written in english lest they get caught & imprisoned C”V.
REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THIS CORRUPT GENERATION TODAY ASAP
It is a scam.
I would not allow their ads.
Seriously. It makes YWN look bad (even if they put in that line about not taking resposibilty blah blah…).
If you ask anyone who knows anything about credit cards they will tell you that it’s a scam.
Even if it’s questionable, a site like YWN should err on the side of caution and not accept the ad.
Are the Coffee Room Moderators the same people as the news/ad Moderators?
(are the moderators even people?)
And the scam is back again. I feel like it’s my duty to bump this thread every time the ad comes back.
Joseph, I’m very surprised at your attitude. I would think that even the merest suggestion of impropriety would be reason enough to stay away from this so-called deal.
There is not even the merest suggestion of impropriety in the scenarios I discussed. (Note that I did not discuss the OP’s scenario.) Just because some random people on internet forums suggest the merest suggestion of impropriety doesn’t make it so.
If the guy running the scam was a Zionist, Joseph’s views would change.
Zionists scammed the Jews, but that is irrelevant to anything discussed here.
They harmed 2 people
There were people who really wanted that coin and were shut out because others hoarded them with back door methods to get extras.
Those who bought were offered less than market value because they didnt know that the coins were worth alot more than they were being sold. And it isnt like only a coin dealer could have sold them, Anyone could have gone on ebay and sold them. Took really no time out of my life to do so
Why is that worse than what you did? You also (if I read the last line correctly) bought it to sell for a profit. The one who sold to the dealer didn’t harm anyone any more than someone who sold directly on eBay.
There was also a benefit to sell to these dealers, because they guaranteed a profit, so there was less risk involved. Therefore, the dealer didn’t harm the one he bought it from.
These things are so, unambiguously scams. I’m also really shocked they get put on YWN. And not just adds either. I have a umm… kosher… internet filter that magically makes all banner adds go away. Sometimes these things are posted as articles.
I’m not really understanding the argument this thread is descending into. I’m sure this coin thing is just a scam, but generally speaking, are people saying that buying something and selling it for more is a scam? Do you realize how every store in the world works?
“Sometimes these things are posted as articles.”
When the “article” says [COMMUNICATED CONTENT] it means it’s sponsored (i.e. an ad, though your special “kosher” software won’t block it, because it looks just like an article)
“I’m sure this coin thing is just a scam, but generally speaking, are people saying that buying something and selling it for more is a scam? Do you realize how every store in the world works?”
I’m confused. You’re saying you’re sure it’s a scam and then going on to explain why you don’t think it’s a scam?
Meno, no, forget about the coin thing. I should have made it a separate sentence. I was talking about how people seemed to be arguing that the mere act of selling something for more than you bought it constitutes a scam.
The coin (assuming it’s like all coin scams that are advertised) is probably something that leads people to believe they are buying at a cheap price and they will be able to sell for more. Apparently even some YWN readers were convinced. In reality, you would never be able to sell it for more because it’s garbage. These scams are all over the radio and TV channels that older people watch. They target people who have lost some of their wits.
I don’t think you’re talking about the same coin deal.
^This
Neville,
The coin deal being discussed here was a deal where you buy a limited edition coin directly from the US Mint and then sell it directly to a coin dealer and they would pay you more than you paid. The reason the dealer couldn’t buy it themselves is because there was a limit of one per customer from the Mint.
People feel it was a scam because instead of selling the coin to the dealer, you could have sold it on ebay for more than the dealer was offering, so they claim that the dealer wasn’t being honest.
If we’re talking about buying limited-availability coins from the U.S. Mint and selling them to a dealer at a profit, DY is correct. As I explained above, this is a way the dealer gets around the n-per-customer limit. There’s almost no risk, since even if the dealer doesn’t buy it, you can sell it yourself at a profit as ZD did.
I saw another scam on the front page – Kupat Ha’Ir, who R’ Matisyahu Salomon said are thieves, had an ad.
DaMoshe, to clarify what R’ Salomon said, it’s not that Kupat Ha’ir is one of those charities with high fundraising costs as one might expect given the ubiquity of their ads. He objects to their claims that if you give them enough money, your troubles will be solved. He thinks they’re exploiting vulnerable people. My source is a 2010 article in Cross-Currents by R’ Yitzchok Adlerstein.
yehudayona: My brother was there when he spoke about it, and he told me what was said.
Yes, he objected to the promises they made, not how they distribute the money. But he said taking money with false promises is pure stealing.
YWN ads offend me in general. They are so blatant, so in your face, often advertise some really shady stuff, and sometimes are designed to hide the fact that it’s an advertisement.
“and sometimes are designed to hide the fact that it’s an advertisement.”
“When the “article” says [COMMUNICATED CONTENT] it means it’s sponsored (i.e. an ad, though your special “kosher” software won’t block it, because it looks just like an article)”
If you know what to look for, it’s pretty clear what’s an ad and what’s not.
“If you know what to look for” is a key phrase in this. Most people probably don’t realize that “Communicated Content” means “Advertisement”. Google puts ads in the top two or three results when searching. It used to be just colored differently, making people think that it was part of the search result. Now they clearly state “Ad” on any advertisement.
It’s all the flashing images that make YWN unusable without ad blocking software.
Yeah I’ve accidentally gone to YWN without my ad blocker on and it is traumatizing.
I still hold strongly that we are all talking about the same coin scam, it’s just a matter of whether or not you’ve fallen for it. It’s just a variation of the “I can’t cash this winning million dollar lottery ticket, can you do it for me? I’ll just need a measly 100 dollar deposit.” Or any telephone, free-yacht kind of scam. You get “free money” which somehow the seller can’t get themself, and they NEED you to do it for them. I’m not going to argue this any longer. At a certain point, I don’t really sympathize with the victims when it’s kind of like economic natural selection: if you’re dumb enough to fall for these, you don’t deserve to have money. I do, however, feel bad for elderly victims; they have an excuse. And, they’re who’s being targeted based on form of media (radio, religious news sites, etc.)
Neville: You are talking about a completely different coin thing than anyone else here has been discussing.
The coin deal we were discussing is not a scam, it’s an issue of possibly unethically taking advantage of an offer in a way which wasn’t intended by the one making the offer.
It definitely does not sound like the same one NC is talking about.
“I still hold strongly that we are all talking about the same coin scam, it’s just a matter of whether or not you’ve fallen for it.”
Are you even reading what other people are writing here? Or are you too afraid you might fall for it?
I believe it’s you who aren’t reading what I wrote. Why would any of us work if these free money scams were real?
Yes, you’re going to say that the coin dealers COULDN’T just buy directly from the “mint.” Just like how the guy with the winning lottery ticket CAN’T cash it himself so he just has to sell it to you for 100 bucks.
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