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Is being knighted “sir” only a British thing?
If so what is the American version?In America every man is a Sir.
The American version is having a lot of money.
The US equivalents were abolished in 1776. The United States is a republic (small “r”, and proud of it).
The only title of address is for a male is “Mister” (even “Mister President”). Attempts to have something more Brit-like fizzled out by the 1790’s (exception: calling judges “Your Honor”, calling elected officials “the honorable”, and lawyers using “esq” after their names).
On Fifties TV shows children address their fathers as “sir”. I was stunned as I did not nor did anyone I know. In the South it is common. Similarly, formal letters are often addressed “Dear Sir”.
America is an am rek, lack of respect, common to call everyone with one’s first name.
Trump does not deserve any respect because he runs after it.
Yt, in order to call Trump you have to get his phone number.
For most former government officials (especially elected and senate confirmed positions) we use the honorific “honorable” and sometimes the title. Some former bureaucrats cling to their titles and its silly. Also silly are those so insecure that they insist on using their doctoral degree (non-medical) so you have no clue if you are meeting an historian or proctologist.
Eliezer, not only Americans. I have noticed that British interviewers also address interviewees by their first names even if they have titles such as Doctor, Professor, or Rabbi (Rabbi Sacks zatzal was addressed by an interviewer as “Jonathan”).
Germans are notorious for insisting on use of their titles (including non-medical doctorates.)
UJM: The yekkeshe obsession with titles can go from the silly to the absurd. In the German system it is not uncommon to list all honorifics, so something like Prof Dr. Dr. Dr. Deutchkopf would be someone with a single professorship and 3 doctorates. Sometimes you would see that as Prof DDDr. Deutchkopf. If the herr honorable Dr.Dr.DRDeutckopf got a fourth doctorate, I imagine the honorific would change to Prof. Dr. mult. Deutchkopf.
In fairness though, frum yidden have their own hierarchy of honorifics for our gadolim which is sometimes confusing in terms of which honorifics, in what sequence are applicable to which rabbonim…aka Ha’rav, Hagoen, etc. etc.
>> yekkeshe obsession
As in early days of Israel 2 yakkes working in construction – please pass the brich, Herr Porfessor; here it is, Herr Porofessor.
>> frum yidden have their own hierarchy of honorific
R Kamenetsky’s son writes in the preface to his book: I am putting R in front of the names, and you feel free to read as you wish: Reb, Rav, Rebbe, Rav HaTzadik, etc
In the US Military, “Sir” is used when addressing a superior officer.
The formalized title is, indeed, a British thing. However, it’s common usage is not. I use “sir” with just about anyone outside my immediate circle of family and friends (and sometime even within… I’ve been known to say “Thank you, sir” to my sons when they do something for me). I even use it for kids, saying “Thank you, sir,” when they hold the door open for me or something else.
The Wolf
Biden and Obama killed whatever respectability America has.
Wolf, do you speak to your daughters and wife with “Thank you, ma’am”, in similar circumstances?
I know someone whose wife sent a check to some tzedaka organization. She received a computerized acknowledgment addressed to הרב. She said that she was insulted that they didn’t write הרב הגאון. On the other hand, some say that a gaon is someone who never heard of Rashi or Tosafot. There is also ה”ה (ha’adon hanichbad) Some say that there is also ה”ה”ה”ה
(הבל הבלים הכל הבל).“Sir” in English is a form of personal address, more respectful than “hey, what’s-your-name”. Being knighted by a monarch also conveys it as an honorific (mistakenly called a “prefix” to a name) like Mister, Miss, Doctor… eg. “Sir James”
In the military, it’s also a form of address to a commissioned officer but when asked as a question “Sir?” it is a respectful way of expressing confusion about an order given by or statement made by a superior officer or it can be a subtle but nominally respectful way of disagreement with a superior officer through feigning confusion, sort of an implied “Sir, have you really thought this through?”
The RMA in the first teshuva writes in the title according to everyone’s level of respect. לפי מדריגתו
Wolf, I know people who said “Sir” and “Madame” to their kids sarcastically.
Robert, in NYC they say “Hey Mac”. The response is “hay is for horses”.
On the other hand, if a person is a Spanish speaker he might mean “there is” or “there are”.
news flash: in britain, even if someone is knighted, thats only a formal title most ppl dont address them as sir. idk abt in america but i do know that in england in boys skls they have to address male teachers as sir or rabbi (in some cases)
Wolf, I know people who said “Sir” and “Madame” to their kids sarcastically.
I never use the term sarcastically.
The Wolf
Wolf, as I asked you above, do you utilize “ma’am” with your female immediate family as you do “sir” with your male immediate family?
Wolf, as I asked you above, do you utilize “ma’am” with your female immediate family as you do “sir” with your male immediate family?
Interesting question. No, I can’t say that I do.
The Wolf
Wolf, perhaps you should start doing so.
Just to note I was being rhetorical. I’m only trying to understand the logic. Explaining the differences between using one but not the other might address the subconscious motivation.
Actually, this might be a weird thing, but in my yeshiva we call all of the English teachers “Sir”, as in “Sir, what’s the assignment today?”. It’s actually a lot easier than calling them by Mr. and then their full last name
ujm >> do you utilize “ma’am” with your female immediate family as you do “sir” with your male immediate family
good question, maybe this: Torah imeha v’musar aviha and kibed et …? Musar may be more associated with discipline and hierarchy, so “sir” would be appropriate. Our attitude towards mothers is different, so maam may be less appropriate.
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