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post if you know any psaks on this halacha
It is permitted for Ashkenazim and Sefardim to eat quinoa on Pesach. Be careful that there are no other grains mixed in with it. It should have a Pesach hashgacha.
no, it’s not
Nope. Some say that there is a chashash that some wheat may be mixed in to it. Star K says it needs a special hashgacha.
Others say you can just be careful to check it (same way Sephardim check rice).
Absolutely NO ONE holds that quinoa is hametz.
The issue is whether it should be treated as kitniyos (i.e. similar to corn and rice) since it might be mistaken from a prohibited grain, since one can use it to bake bread. The alternative is to treat like potatoes or turnips, which can be made into a flour, but are permissable according to everyone. There are plenty of opinions on the matter, and there is clearly no consensus among rabbanim. While quinoa has been around for a long time, it has only become common in the United States recently, so there hasn’t been time to decide if it is a new type of corn, or a new type of potato. Anyone who says the Daas Torah has decided the matter should say “My Rav holds…. “.
rebdoniel: Star-K in holding it to be permissable (i.e. analagous to potatos) said that it doesn’t rise, but then I checked online for recipes for bread making and it explained how one gets quinoa to rise (similar to bread flower).
I suspect it will take a generation or two for this all to get settled down. There seems a reluctance to allow for anything that can be used to offer kosher-le-pesach challah, pizza and pita.
I wonder how long it took for everyone to decide that potatoes were kosher le-pesach when they were introduced 500 years ago.
Checking for wheat would not be that hard, as wheat kernels are roughly 15-30 times larger that a quinoa grain.
If you broadly define “midi demidgin” as “growing in “sharvitim” the it would qualify as kitniyos, HOWEVER,
if you say that gezeras kitnoyos did not “cross the Atlantic” and that anything native to the Americas (the potato for instance, and also zachur latov, peanut oil) is not kitniyos, then quinoa is also not subject to the gezera.
Whoa!!! This is a question for everyones specific rov not for other peoples opinions or “psak” ifu need a Rav number I can post one (if mods let) but UT really should be taken to your rov!!!!!
And especially for asckenazim bec we don’t eat rice..
twisted: CORN (or as others call it, Maize, or American corn) – is an American food, and it is universally considered kitniyos by anyone who holds by kitniyos.
Akuperma: I indicated it is a hypothesis. I heard another ‘halacha vein morin ken’ that kitniyos in the green state is no worse that chameshes haminim in the green state, and those are mutar. So had I been an absolute hermit, I would enjoy fresh corn on the cob. I no longer have that yetzer horo though, cause most if not all corn is now Mosanto carcinogenic, and for the young guys, it can possibly mess up your fertility.
And corn had the misfortune to be named with the European term for just about anything grainy.
As someone that worked as a assistant masgiach on a several pesach trips in different hotels thorough out the country. Firstly, sometimes certain brands of quinoa are stored with questionable grain kernels for preservation purposes that is the concern of the star K so it that case it may needed to be checked like Spheradim do rice. Secondly, if it a brand of pure quinoa some people consider to be kitniyos for various different reasons. Finally, their are shetios that claimed potatoes were kitniyos for two different reasons also, however the universal opinion with potatoes is otherwise. However I do not believe that making potato bread which I love is aloud on Pesach and I never heard of anyone that ate potato bread. However, I do not every kelluah , minhag or chumarh when it comes to Pesach their are many more then most people are aware of.
Plenty of poskim tried banning potatoes.
Corn wasn’t around when the takanna on kitniyot was enacted. Both corn and potatoes, like quinoa, are foods from the New World.
1) It’s not chametz.
2) It’s not kitniyos because:
a) It’s a berry.
b) We are not allowed to add on to a gezeirah.
3) The only reason why American corn (maize) is considered kitniyos is because European corn is 100% chametz (it’s oats, barley, etc.)
This is an observation of fact, not a halachic opinion. All kitniyos are seeds (as are the five species that can become chametz). Potatoes are not seeds. Therefore, it’s quite a stretch to declare potatoes assur. I don’t much doubt that there have been attempts to declare it assur since there are all sorts of crazy chumros out there.
truthsharer, are you saying that maize is kitniyos only because it’s called corn is some places? If so, why is it kitniyos in places where it’s called maize? And why are peanuts considered kitniyos? Does “pea” trump “nut?” What about places where they’re called “groundnuts”?
I don’t much doubt that there have been attempts to declare it assur since there are all sorts of crazy chumros out there.
The Chayei Adam was not a crazy machmir, c”v. The reason to asser potatoes is because they are used to make baked goods, much like kitniyus were, and this is one the reasons offered for the minhag not to eat kitniyus.
Obviously, most people eat potatoes on Pesach; this Chayei Adam was not accepted.
While Rav Heinemann and the Star-K permit it, the OU is uncertain and Machmir.
CALL UR LOR mods please close the thread u don’t want chas vishalom someone giving a “peak” and it’s not right this is seriousbec ur chayav mesah if u eat chometz…
Humradoxy is a very popular approach.
What ever happened to Kocha d’ hetera adif?
Why is it that if a person relies on the Pesah list of a rabbi who learned under the Hazon Ish and heads a kollel in Lakewood he is insulted and ridiculed and dismissed as a trouble-maker?
Why can’t people admit simply that they choose to take positions that are rooted in a desire for stringency rather than the codified halakha?
Hello: The OU might be uncertain, but Rav Schachter told me that it’s perfectly fine.
CALL UR FAMILY’S OWN RABBI!!
Mods plz close this threa it’s serious stuff!!
supreme, do you call to close a bais medrash when there are lively discussions? Why do you feel threatened by honest give and take?
truthsharer, not a berry. Quinoa is amaranth seed. The plant is a weed like tall stalk with broad leaves, the seeds are born in tassels at the top. The whole plant is edible, but the seeds are tiny and hard to separate from the chaff.
Dear superme;
I have three suggestions:
1. Learn to write and spell properly.
2. Proofread your post before sending it out.
3. Do not provide us with incorrect halachic information.If you are unsure of what I have in mind, please go over your high school notes regarding eating chometz on Pesach.
Rd, do you know what koach d’heteira adif actually means? It seems not; you are using it to mean that we always follow the lenient approach. It doesn’t, and we don’t.
The list of Kitniyot grows every year . Mustard seeds and Aspertaine (A Kitniyot derevative)
Maize (American Corn) was not even known to the Europeans until after columbus as was Potatoes as both were bought back from the americas
As it is incorrect, and not remarked as incorrect by moderators, that eating chometz on Pesach makes someone chayav misa, there are other posts that are similarly incorrect, and not remarked as incorrect by moderators, but still completely incorrect, and not to be trusted.
Noted.
Twisted- well this is serious stuff this is a matter of doing a major averah or not do you want to be responsible for him getting the avera of eating it if it’s rly chometz?!
Oldman- 3) um yeh I’m In highschool and before o sent out my comment I read my notes from the rabbi we hav for Halacha and it’s his notes he gives it out to everyone and he says that eating chometz on pesach bec u ddnt properly check out the item by a Rav is a MAJOR AVERA!!! Your chav misha!!!!!!!!! It’s serious stuff!
Likeee- can ou take my advice and call ur LOR do u hav a number or u need kne?
Superme, cool it. Quinoa is not one of the 5 grains and therefore cannot be chametz.
Ok supreme, you are an alarmist highschooler. I taught high school, so maybe I can help you. This is essentially a discussion of the parameters of minhag kitniyos. There is an expansive approach, such as the Chaye Odom, and there is the conservative view as expressed in many similar subjects as ‘hava velo nosif alei’. The two issues with kitniyos were the contamination with other grains, and that in places of poverty, they were routinely mixed grain bread and kugels as filler. The Chaye Odom said ‘kitniyos and anything like them’ and there were other, and earlier halachic authorities that called the line at the potato, declaring that the minhag is limited to what was known then in early greater Ashkenaz. That clearly puts any New World product (white potatos, quinoa, peanuts, sunflower, etc. outside the parameters of the minhag. Still, we would have to check the unkitniyos item for mixed in chametz grains. And lastly for accuracy, for eating chametz, the result is kares. To err in kitniyos, there is no listed punishment. Enjoy your matzos.
zahavasdad, mustard seed is not new, the Rama lists it as one of kitniyos because it is sharp, and he lists spices which are not kitniyot.
zahavasdad, mustard seed is not new, the Rama lists it as one of kitniyos because it is sharp, and he lists spices which are not kitniyot.
We should relax and enjoy the discussion. This is the first time in 500 years that a brand new food is introduced. It hasn’t happened since foods such as tomatoes, chocolate, potatos and corn (as Americans call it) were introduced soon after the European conquest of the Americas. Unless they find edible foods on some other planet (highly unlikely for a variety of reasons), this is the last time we’ll be able to see the process by which we decide on the halachic status of a new type of food. It’s fascinating.
Akuperma- quiona is not so new
Twisted- I don’t know but Iearnt from our Halachah rabbi that it is…he is very machmer on things like somethings many don’t think is a problem but he does (for ex. Singing zemiros in front of your brothers and father nobody else he doesn’t allow so maybe that’s why he said this about eating chometz…)
Edited for misinformation.
On Pesach, many people have accepted upon themselves to be stricter than the rest of the year. If this was manageable in the olden days, it is certainly not such a big deal when you can get non-gebrukts pancakes and pasta primavera from the frozen food section.
Actually its harder now-adays.
In the old days, you prepared all your own food, today most things are processed.
Also in the olden days people ate simpler, You ate a potato and you were happy. Todays kids cant go 2 days without eating some Pizza or cereal
Mod wat was wrong info?
And there are plenty of times u shld edit things for misinfo this is actually correct info
Why isn’t coffee or chocolate considered kitniyos?
twisted, could you explain why the Rema considered mustard kitniyos because it’s sharp when no other kitniyos that I can think of are sharp? I thought the idea of kitniyos is that they’re things you could make bread out of. I shudder to think of bread made of mustard flour.
akuperma “We should relax and enjoy the discussion. This is the first time in 500 years that a brand new food is introduced.”
A food? I thought we were talking about quinoa?
yehudayona: The Mechaber has it as an issur to mix in matza as it can accelerate chimutz, Rama just says we don’t use it at all because it is ‘like kitniyot’,without elaboration. Mishna Brura there give the reason that is is davar demidgan, as in the older texts, midi demidgan. This is the broad brush of kitniyot, as it subject to many definitions. Some that I have heard or seen:
Handled like grain
Harvested like grain
Looking like grain
Legumes
Substitution for grain
Growing in pods or in clusters
As you can imagine this can broaden the range of what is exactly kitniyos.
Dear superme:
Sorry to say, your teacher has been giving you inaccurate information. The penalty for intentionally eating chometz (I don’t need to get into the exact amount now) on Pesach is Kares. Not misah.
I suggest that you check things out by yourself instead of misleading others with second-hand inaccuracies. You can start by reading the psukim in the Chumash, it is rather explicit there.
There are people who participate in these discussions who have serious and wide knowledge of Torah and halachah. Blatant inaccuracies are not well received by them, nor should they be. Please be careful.It’s not a crime not to know something. If you don’t really know, don’t write as if you do.
yehudayona: Rav Schachter said the same about why corn is considered Kitniyos. It’s because corn means grain.
Yehudayona but it can’t be all there is to it, for example string beans are kitniyot forbidden to some, even though they are obviously not usable to prepare bread-like foods, and they are forbidden even if we have them picked before any seed is visible in the pod.
Also, could you think of bread made of coriander flour? Cumin flour? Differently from corn they were known and permitted, yet some have the minhag to avoid them.
“It’s because corn means grain”
Sam2, interesting, I never heard, I wish to ask you, do you know opinions about the status of acorn? (The seed of the oak)
I would think that is a sort of nut, not a seed, although of course no one in my family ever ate, and also, preparation for Pesach is impossible unless strictly supervised (I know some native americans eat the acorns, but they soak them for weeks). Thank you
There is one company I know of, whose Quinoa is no chashash of chometz. Quinoa is NOT chometz orb kitniyos. The problem is that some Q is grown in proximity to wheat fields. The ones from Ancient Harvest(?), or a name like that, are under Hashgocha Star K kosher for Pesach. Ask your rov his opinion.
Many rabbanim who don’t know week just assur it. That’s what many people want anyway. Others are waiting to see what people do and then issue their ruling accordingly. That’s why some flip flop year to year.
Daniela: I have not heard anything about it. I looked on dictionary.com and the root is the same as corn, but that doesn’t mean anything. Corn was popular enough (in both usage of the word and eating) that there was a possible confusion. Not so much by acorns.
Interestingly, according to Wikipedia it was a staple food in ancient Spain (unclear how ancient is “ancient). But no one in Spain ever kept Kitniyos anyway so there’s no reason that should affect things. It definitely meets certain criteria for Kitniyos, but we don’t really understand what all the criteria are so we can’t really make our own judgments. Based on this, I would be hesitant to eat them until I learned more, but it definitely seems like an issue worth looking into.
Most kitniyos are able to easily be made into “flour” and there was probably a concern it could be confused with real flour, and the real flour could be inadvertently used on Pesach. To avoid that potential scenario, any vegetable flour that resembled grain flour, was assered by Ashkenazic rabbonim. They wanted to asser potatoes also, but would have had a major rebellion in the Jewish community had they assered such a dietary staple.
While you ask your LOR, just letting you know that you can use Quinoa to make sushi on Pesach. It tastes good!
Sushi…
It’s interesting that the article quotes the Star-K as saying that quinoa is grown near barley. The 2013 OU Passover Guide says it’s not grown near any of the five grains (but it may be processed near them).
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