Is Obama a U.S Citizen?

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  • #589934
    obamanaz
    Member

    He never showed a birth certificate. All he has shown is a certificate of live birth. As a matter of fact he spent 100K against lawsuits trying to force him to show one.

    #651654
    mepal
    Member

    Its a fact. Nothing to discuss there. Any time it was brought up, the media shoved it under the carpet. That’s the only way he got to where he is today. The media loved him and didn’t want to support anything that would make him lose the election.

    #651655
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    He’s really a martian, trying to sell us out to the galactic empire? 🙂

    #651656
    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    Seems that this has been disproven. No need to resort to conspiracy theories and false facts; Obama will not last more than one term as he will stumble on his own.

    There are just times when everything seems to be going wrong in the world, and then the greatest yeshuas follow. I remember Carter YMS, and I also remember how the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union began under Reagan. This time, it may well be Iran and then the Arab dictatorships that fall apart one by one. Obama will not be much of a help to anti-mullah movements in Iran, but his successor may well be.

    #651657
    tzippi
    Member

    Let’s say it’s proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he’s not. And he may or may not have been complicit of hiding it. Then what?

    #651658
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Forgive me for being silly here, but isn’t a “certificate of live birth” a birth certificate??

    The Wolf

    #651659
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    You know, I *know* I’m going to regret getting involved in this…

    1. Yes, it a real birth certificate. A number of states title their birth certificates a “certificate of live birth.” It’s the same thing. So, yes, he was born in Hawaii in 1961 and that makes him a full-fledged U.S. citizen.

    2. Want additional proof? Both of Honolulu’s major newspapers printed birth announcements of Barack Obama’s birth in 1961.

    Lastly (and most importantly) every judge to whom the issue was brought has ruled that Obama is a US Citizen based on his birth certificate.

    For heaven’s sake — by all means, if you don’t like Obama’s policies, then take him to task on them. But just give up on the birth certicate issue — it makes you look stupid.

    The Wolf

    #651660
    mepal
    Member

    So why’d he (and the media) make a whole issue when it was brought to court? Couldn’t he have just forged one?

    #651661
    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    But doesn’t it seem peculiar that instead of showing his real birth certificate he chooses to spend $1M to fight it in court?

    ;

    #651662
    anon for this
    Participant

    I just read about another American who believes President Obama is not a US citizen: John Von Brunn. He’s indisposed right now, but maybe if his health improves, he’d like to discuss his views with you.

    #651663
    kapusta
    Participant

    mepal

    Member

    Its a fact. Nothing to discuss there. Any time it was brought up, the media shoved it under the carpet. That’s the only way he got to where he is today. The media loved him and didn’t want to support anything that would make him lose the election.

    not the media… gezeirah for it to happen this way. We are the only ones who can change that.

    *kapusta*

    #651664
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Can anyone provide a credible source for an amount of money that Obama spent on this? The OP says 100K, Mayan says 1M, other sources on the internet (bloggers, etc.) have different amounts.

    In other words show me that he spent that much.

    On second thought, don’t bother, because it’s immaterial. The birth certificate is still real, he was still born in Hawaii in 1961, and therefore he’s still a citizen — regardless of whether he spent 5 cents or 30 billion dollars.

    The Wolf

    #651665
    anon for this
    Participant

    Sorry, I got the first name of the patriot above wrong: of course it’s James Von Brunn, not John.

    #651667
    mepal
    Member

    not the media… gezeirah for it to happen this way. We are the only ones who can change that.

    Exactly, kapusta! Hashems presence is becoming increasingly obvious. It only makes sense that He put the idea into the media’s heads because anyone with the least bit of common sense would have realized that he is not fit to ‘rule’ America.

    #651668
    kapusta
    Participant

    mepal, I heard from one of the people who teach current events in my school, the only way its possible to teach it is to make it into a hashkafa class, and talk about how clear Yad Hashem is now.

    *kapusta*

    #651669
    mepal
    Member

    Yup! I’m getting so freaked out with the way ‘current events’ are unfolding in front of our very eyes.

    #651670
    veyatziv
    Member

    Nobody is saying he is not an american citizen. Some of my kids are completely american, have authentic american “certificates of live birth”, but they were born in Jerusalem. Legally, one must be american born to be elligible for president.

    #651671
    obamanaz
    Member
    #651672
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Obamanaz,

    I find it very hard to believe that you can get an official Certificate of Live Birth (short form) for Hawaii that lists the town and island of birth as “Honolulu” and “Oahu” respectively for any child not born in that town and island.

    Can you document someone who *did* receive an official Certificate of Live Birth that says that they were born in Hawaii when they, in fact, were not?

    The Wolf

    #651673

    Why are we even still discussing this? There are so many valid complaints against Obama; I don’t understand why people keep dragging up this old, silly one.

    #651674
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Beacuse “He’s really a martian, trying to sell us out to the galactic empire? :-)”

    Perhaps Obama is Haman in disguise?

    Welcome back Jfem

    #651675
    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    Haman in disguise is not Obama. The new Haman is not disguised at all. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is clearly a direct descendant of Amalek via the Haman line. And note that as he gets closer to his nuclear dreams (which I still think are bogus Baghdad Bob nonsense), his own people are rebelling.

    Yad Hashem.

    And if Obama thinks he will get away with anything which is against Hashem’s will, he can think again. The rising oil price at present is just another illustration of Who runs the world and Who will make sure that after allowing Obama in to show the US what a mess such a misleader can make, will make sure he is over and done with in 2012 as Jimmy Carter was after one term.

    #651677
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Lev Melachim V’sarim B’yad Hashem. If we deserve it via our Teshuva & Tefila, he can be the best for the yidden.

    well said Kilo.

    (the comment regarding Haman was in the same vein as the first. I could have said Stalin just as easily, but Obama is part socialist:)

    #651678
    feivel
    Participant

    bear

    my own feeling

    a man with a muslim name with virtually no experience (very strong reasons that one could not possibly become president of the united states) arose out of nowhere to become the most powerful man in the world. reminiscent of haman, a lowly barber, and htlr (he should burn in gihennom forever)a lowly paper hanger who both came from nowhere to become the most powerful men in the world

    i have a feeling he is destined to play a large role in HaKodeshBarachu’s plan.

    #651679
    feivel
    Participant

    note: in my last post (if im allowed to post this), i gave a 3rd reason why it was highly unlikely he could be elected, it was edited out.

    #651681
    cherrybim
    Participant

    Feivel- “i have a feeling he is destined to play a large role in HaKodeshBarachu’s plan.”

    Feivel, that goes for every world leader, all the time.

    #651682
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Cherrybim, but his rapid rise from anonimty points to something more than the usual. (Or rather, that we can actually percieve it)

    #651683
    mepal
    Member

    cherry, sometimes it’s more apparent than other times.

    #651684
    feivel
    Participant

    of course cherry of course

    thats why i placed “large” in bold

    i sense something very very big here….

    maybe not

    #651685
    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    When you think about it, the last Hamanite president, Jimmy Carter, also played a very large role in Hashem’s plan – and as will be the case with Obama, that role was negative and he was trounced out in disgrace.

    #651688
    dveykus613
    Participant

    If anyone follows the purim story (or even better read rav brevda’s english pamphlet/books on the “real” raid behind the purim story) – it seems to me that Ahmadinedijad is haman who outright wants to see every one of us destroyed, and obama is Achashveirosh who was a commoner who suddenly got into power and seemed “impartial” but when reading between the lines we see he was really evil as well and liked haman’s ideas and gave him his signet. Obama is also surrounded with (sometimes brainless) advisors as was Achashveirosh.

    They also say with megillas Esther that everywhere it says “HaMelech” it is really referring to Hashem, who was hidden behind the scenes (and therefore it doesn’t say His Name once explicitly) but it’s very clear He is pulling all the puppet strings – with the seemingly nonsensical commoners coming to power (both Haman and Achashveirosh) and then the total hashgocha of Esther and Mordechai getting an “in” to the government, Mordechai overhearing bigsan and seresh so Achashveirosh would be indebted to him (and didn’t want to be BTW and kept trying to flip the page but a malach kept turning it back to the page about Mordechai), etc etc. everything was perfectly orchestrated.

    So the point is, as kapusta said, if we’re zocheh, and we are chozer b’teshuva with eachother and to Hashem, then be”H the puppet strings will be pulled to our good – with all world leaders and all world events. But chas v’shalom, if not….well let’s just say that Barack “HUSSEIN” Obama does not bode well for us, and the default “teva” looks pretty bleak for us…

    At the same time we shouldn’t despair, and the Chofetz Chaim said we cannot change the world, we can only change ourselves, which he did himself, and he ended up actually changing the world. So let’s do our best to get to work on ourselves….

    #651689
    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    Very interesting:

    1) Moussavi’s middle name is also Hussein (Hossein).

    2) Moussavi means “of Moshe”! In the Arab world, its cognate Moussawi (as in terrorist Zecarias Moussaoui YMS who uses the French transliteration) means a Jew, a follower of Moses, and indicates a Jewish convert to Islam L”A, forced or otherwise! I do not know if this is the same in Farsi or if it just means a descendant of someone called Moussa (Moshe), a name which may be used by Muslims as well and is used by Persian dialect speaking Muslims in places like Chechnya and Daghestan. Anyone have any information about this? My info on Mussawi in Arabic comes from an Arabic speaking Iraqi Jew; I don’t have any ‘Persian’ contacts I can get in touch with now.

    #651690
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    WolfishMusings:

    I agree with your point that was reiterated by

    jewishfeminist02,

    however I have another theory that answers both questions,

    perhaps he really was born in the U.S. but wanted to keep the muslim

    world from hating him, by confiming he’s american born,

    for political & other reasons.

    So he paid whatever amount (the guy is loaded anyhow)

    (having Hussein as a middle name doesn’t hurt either)

    So he could play both sides.

    Just a theory! food for thought.

    #651691
    dveykus613
    Participant

    forget the birth certificate but I still say he’s “Achashveirosh” – from what I understand he hadn’t even been in any politics until a few years ago…

    #651693
    obamanaz
    Member

    Wolf,

    Now do you get what I am talking aboult. Even Lou Dobbd is on to the Obama Scam.

    #651694
    cherrybim
    Participant

    “If anyone follows the purim story (or even better read rav brevda’s english pamphlet/books on the “real” raid behind the purim story)”

    Or even better, listen to Rav Brevda’s tapes on Purim on Aish.com.

    #651695
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It doesn’t matter. It’s still a non-issue. The Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii, which has been proven to be authentic, and which states that he was born in the state, is legal enough.

    Why he won’t release it is a non-issue.

    The Wolf

    #651696
    GoldieLoxx
    Member

    i cant believe anyone with half a brain would still be tring to prove he caant be presedent

    cmon

    #651697
    obamanaz
    Member

    The announcements of Barack Obama’s birth printed by two Hawaii newspapers in 1961 do not provide solid proof of a birth in the Aloha State because of uncertainties over the policies and procedures that apparently were being used at the time.

    The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, now reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii’s Department of Health.

    “We don’t have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System,” a Star-Bulletin newsroom operator explained.

    #651698
    squeak
    Participant

    It’s way too late to still be talking about this. Personally, I also suspect something is not right. And the fact that there is a “witness” who “remembers” his birth is suspicious in and of itself.

    #651699
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Obamanaz,

    So what? No one suggested that the newspaper clippings were proof in and of themselves… they are merely supporting evidence.

    In any event, the Certificate of Live Birth is still valid proof that he was born in Hawaii. You have stated (without any proof to back it up) that one can obtain a Cert. of Live Birth from Hawaii for non-native born children, but even if that’s true, I doubt you can get one that says that you were born in Hawaii unless you actually were.

    The Wolf

    #651700
    The Wolf
    Member

    Mr. Wolfish

    I’m surprised you are even dignifying this nonsense.

    The Other Wolf

    #651701
    obamanaz
    Member

    Wow some people are bored.

    Wolf the third

    #651702
    purplegirl
    Member

    i dont see y it really matters

    #651703
    obamanaz
    Member

    California Rep. John Campbell co-sponsored a bill (with at least nine others) requiring presidential candidates to submit a birth certificate, a wink and a nod action that he maintains is somehow not related to the birthers’ claims. When MSNBC’s Chris Matthews asked Campbell if he believed Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen, Campbell hedged, saying, “As far as I know, yes, OK?” He told Matthews, “it doesn`t matter whether I have doubts or not.”

    #651704
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    My guess is that the bill isn’t going anywhere.

    But, in any event, even if it is adpoted, so what? You’re always free to change the standards going forward. You want to require an actual birth certificate for future presidents? Fine. You want to require that they dress in bee costumes and open every campaign speech with “Buzz buzz buzz…” that’s fine too. But it doesn’t change anything as far as what happened in the past. Obama met the legal requirements for the office and that’s that.

    The Wolf

    #651705
    oomis
    Participant

    The importance of this is akin to the importance of everything being in order on a kesubah, or the marriage is not valid. The law of this land is that our Presidents must be natural-born USA citizens. Naturalized citizens are not eligible. Personally, I think that is wrong, but it is the law. None of our first Presidents was a natural born citizen, They all came from England. Having said that. If obama was born anywhere else besides the USA, and his parents were not American Citizens, then he was not legally eligible to run for President, which is very nogeya to us. If it was illegal for him to run, then he was also elected illegally, and this should be undone ASAP if found to be true. I don’t care if you like him or not (I personally do not). He could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he is answerable to the same laws that we are, and if he was ineligible or is found to have lied about his birthplace, then we need to follow the law. Then we can always amend the law to include non-born-in-the USA citizens, and the idealistic among us can re-elect him lawfully, if they still want to, after what he has done to this country in only a few short months.

    #651706
    oomis
    Participant

    Obama met the legal requirements for the office and that’s that.

    If that is true, then there is nothing to be done, he was legally elected. But if not…

    #651707
    yossi z.
    Member

    finally someone who spelled things out!!

    #651708
    Josh31
    Participant

    “The importance of this is akin to the importance of everything being in order on a kesubah, or the marriage is not valid.”

    Wrong.

    The YWN moderator is sleeping on the job and should not allow posts like this to pass before verifying with an expert in this area of Halacha.

    I do not have any Rabbinic ordination, but

    Based upon my best understanding:

    An invalid kesubah does not invalidate the marriage itself. A new kesubah is required immediately. Many, if not most or all of the monetary obligations are still binding on the husband even if no Kesubah is written.

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