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Isn’t it better to get married and have kids, even if the marriage is fair-bad and you get divorced after some time?
Here is my thinking: It is normal to get divorced, it happens. Normal people get married, try to make it work, and sometimes end up divorced. If you do that, and have kids, and are divorced at 35, at least you tried. At least you have kids. At least you lived a normal life.
I’ve a relative who got divorced after like 13 years and a few kids. I imagine he can’t regret getting married. He lived. He wears a tallis. He doesn’t get gellila.
Now days anyone can buy a tallis in any judaica store, they dont ask to see your marriege licence so if your only reason to get married is to have a tallis please just buy one.
He doesn’t get gellila.
What does this have to do with anything?
The Wolf
PBA,
I thought no more troll posts on motzei shabbos
wolfish,
inside joke
Why do you imagine he doesn’t regret getting married? I would think otherwise.
I would agree he probably doesn’t regret getting married. Someone who is divorced is treated totally differently (read better) than someone who was never married.
Plus, he has kids. That makes everything worth it.
i dont think anyone should go into a marriage thinking of divorce. thats first.
second, think about those kids u wanna hav – do u think its a good life for them to hav parents who are divorced? think about their future!
third, the whole mind set that divorce is o.k. and perfectly normal is a pretty new one (in the last hundred years or so) and one that is not condonded by the Torah community.
fourth, if u want your marriage to work u must learn to give and to give up. my father always says if couples would only do that there would be no reason for divorce. u cant be selfish in a marriage,constantly thinking “whats in it for me.”
and going into a marriage just for the sake of being married and wearing a tallit, sounds pretty selfish – especially if u r thinking about divorcing your wife in a few years anyway.
we r supposed to get married in order to build a FAMILY and a Bayit Neeman BeYisrael.
(btw i used the “you” term not meaning “you” personally, but anybody)
I had an excellent thread last week about how older singles are treated to gellila, and it got like 60+ posts before it was inexplicably deleted.
What does it have to do with being single. I’ve gotten gelilah many times since my marriage.
The Wolf
In my shul, some married people get galila, but it is mostly kids
wolfish,
it was a thread how only nebuchs get gelilah
it was a thread how only nebuchs get gelilah
Oh well… I guess that in addition to my other faults, I’m also a nebuch.
The Wolf
i dont think anyone should go into a marriage thinking of divorce.
I don’t think anyone goes into marriage thinking of divorce. For one thing, I think it’s against halacha.
I’ve a relative who got divorced after like 13 years and a few kids. I imagine he can’t regret getting married. He lived. He wears a tallis. He doesn’t get gellila.
I’m sure the person the OP referred to did not go into marriage thinking “in 13 years I’m going to get divorced.” It seems obvious s/he tried to make the marriage work.
The question is, is that better than never getting married? The answer is an unequivocal “yes.”
I wouldn’t let someone do gellila who talks during leining.
You’re not a gabbai are you?
It’s not motzaei shabbos yet where I live.
what do you mean “yet” anyway it’s where rov of the CR is
I wouldn’t let someone do gellila who talks during leining.
It’s hard to keep quiet if you’re the one doing the leining.
i wouldnt suggest going into a marriage with that attitude tho…
The rav? Who is the rav? And who cares where he lives?
ur being silly
Rov as in majority
just figured
haifagirl -“The question is, is that better than never getting married? The answer is an unequivocal “yes.””
That’s not what he said. This is your interpretation due to your own situation!
PBA -“Isn’t it better to get married and have kids, even if the marriage is fair-bad and you get divorced after some time?”
I love the what if’s! Before you decide to tell the world your opinion, why don’t you try it yourself and then come back and tell us?
worth it? obviously, in HaShems plan, this marriage had to be, whether anyone understands or not. is His plan not worth it? not up to us to say whether or not its worth it. it is up to us to trust HaShem that it had to happen for a reason (ie: if they were married long enough and had kids, those kids obviously had to be born), and see what we could learn from the situation to come better.
by we i mean general population, as i am not yet married. and i give all those marrieds and singles a bracha never to have to go through something like this, and if someone here did, or is, we have no idea what pain you are going through, but may HaShem help you and guide you and always be there for you and soon give you a reason to rejoice like never before!
popa_bar_abba, There are always exceptions, but in most cases of THIS NATURE I’m sure the divorcees would agree. Of course it depends on why they got divorced (abuse, disorder) and custody… They are most fortunate (and special) if they can see yad Hashem in their situation!
I wouldn’t let someone do gellila who talks during leining.
If given a choice between someone who talks during leining or posts in the CR on Shabbos, I’d give it to the talker.
I am someone who made the choice to get married knowing there were major obstacles in the union. We were hashkafically very different. A mekubal from a very well known family told me that if I didn’t marry him, I would never have children (another mekubal later told me this wasn’t true). This was an unacceptable option for me. I figured, we could make it work. I can tell you, had he been a mensch, I could have lived with the hashkafic differences. He would have been mature enough to learn from the issues I was pointing out. My marriage is falling apart not because of what I thought would interfere, or because of a fatalistic attitude on my part (even people with doubts go in hopeful), but due to his recent attitude that he could say or do whatever he wants, despite my feelings. I made the decision to get married, knowing I might get divorced, but at the very least wanting children. I am suffering the consequences of that decision now. But seeing my single friends who fear of never marrying, it’s hard to say who has it harder.
mommamia22: Why did this mekubel tell you that you would never have children if you didn’t marry him? And what prompted your visit to him?
mommamia22 -You should have never gone to a Mekubel. Mekubalim are like dream interpreters. They interpret any way they want. I’m not saying it’s Ossur to go to them, but following the Posuk of “Tommim Tehiyeh” one will not lose out.
PBA – “Health: You really think you’d rather be your age and single than divorced with kids?”
The problem with your way of thinking is this – it has to be one or the other. Either divorced with kids or single. Perhaps if the Soton wouldn’t have laid a trap with these people who told lie after lie and the divorcee wouldn’t have fallen in, perhaps he/she could be happily married with kids to s/o else.
Let me explain you something -the Torah says “Lifnei Ever Lo Ceetain Michsol”. Why not? If Hashem wants he will trip and get up again. In other words no damage will come to him either physically or spiritually, so why is it Ossur? The answer is because a lot of people aren’t on the Madreiga to withstand Nisyonos. So if this Nisoyon would never have occured they wouldn’t have ended in the mud! A person has that Bechira to reject being the Shaliach. We see that by the Army General who was supposed to destroy the Bais Hamikdash.
Some Meforshim explain why Sodom had to be destroyed in this world as opposed to letting them lead out their lives like everyone else and then get judged up. Many people in this world don’t keep Bain Odom L’chaveiro just like the Sodomites and Hashem doesn’t destroy them right away. They answer is like this -If a poor person came to do the door collecting, they didn’t just tell them -I don’t want to give -they said it’s Bashert for you to be poor. This type of attitude has to be destroyed right away. Hashem has his Chesbonos why he does certain things, but us who live in this world have to do what we are supposed to do anyway.
People Redding Shidduchim sometimes make the same Chesbonos – Oh I don’t have to tell him/her basic stuff -if it’s Bashert it will work out, if not, not! People aren’t allowed to lie or do Geneivas Daas on major things that will make a difference in the marriage.
If your relative would come here and post his opinion, then fine. He has the right to argue with my opinion- being he has gone through the same thing. But you and others who have Not gone through this – who gave you the right to speak for those whom are living this Gehinom?!?!
Health, yes people who are not in your situation shouldn’t judge. From what you said, your divorce was complicated. I really hate it when people try to come up with their pshat for divorce, and assume they know everything, when like you said leave the chesbonos to Hashem. I don’t think any of the posters are trying to be insensitive to your circumstances.
But I’m sure you’ll admit that you don’t regret your children… Though your situation might have been avoided, obviously if it happened, there has to be some reason. You seem like the kind of person (from me observing some of your posts) that will find that silver lining, even if it’s not apparent, and won’t point blank say that there was no gain.
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And what if they are 50 and divorced with no kids? Would the OP say that’s the best or the worst situation, of the three? No harm done?
Hey, at least they had the experience of marriage, right? There are no children who might have suffered, but OTOH there is no “consolation prize” for the two people who might have been happy with other spouses, or who might have had children with other spouses, or who might have led happy single lives (even with getting gelilah or being called “Aunt” by everybody else’s kids).
PBA – All I can say is that they are both bad. But both types should never give up hope for a Yeshuah.
And to all those who don’t have these kind of Tzoros – you should keep those that do in your minds. You should Daven for them and if you know of two singles/divorcees that might be Tzoogepassed -set them up!
No one gets married with the intention of getting a divorce. Yes, they might think that if this doesn’t work out I can always get a divorce, but they don’t plan on divorcing the person they marry. So the intent is to marry and live happily ever after. No one knows how the marriage will turn out. There are couples going into marriage without a clue as to what marriage is all about. There are couples going into marriage without a clue who their partner is and how they will behave in a marriage. And their are couples going into marriage without a clue who they are and what their responsibilities and obligations are to their partner.
Then again there are couples going into marriage fully armed and prepared for marriage and yet somehow it doesn’t work out. No one can predict the future. Oh and did I mention there are couples from all the above categories who go into marriage and build beautiful lives and families because no matter how they start off they are determined to make their marriage work?
Also, maybe some of the posters can back me in asking YWN to create separate Tehillim lists -one for sick people and one for people needing Shidduchim.
I second health!
Wasn’t there one woman in Family First magazine a while back who claimed that she was treated far better after her divorce than as an older single? (I don’t read the magazine, so I wouldn’t know.)
The relevance of this question in the form presented is not clear. Assuming the question is comparing the challenges of an older bachelor vs. a divorcee, there are obviously tough challenges on both sides. What may be important to note is that divorcees/male are stigmatized excluded and treated as irrelevant in our “frum orthodox societies”. I n addition to the often being tortured in the divorce process , and maintaining relationship with children. Although impossible to compare or judge, a bachelor’s life is for sure very lonely and comes along with stigma, selfish advice and more, but is left to deal specifically with “being single” excluding the dirt, emotional strain etc. of divorcees.
Is a short marriage worse than no marriage?
‘Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all’
To my understanding this question is a misunderstanding. memah nafshech, if your getting married al daas to get divorced, it’s against halacha (see Nedarim 20 b, O.C. 240). If you’re going into the marriage knowing that it won’t work and that ultimately you will get divorced it is the same issue, moreover as getting divorced is an extremely harsh thing in the eyes of chazal, (see gitten 90 b), how can one justify getting married even though he knows it wont work. Furthermore he will transgress the mitzvah of love thy neighbor etc, (see kuddushin 41 a that chazal forbid marrying a woman before seeing her because of this, and I think it obvious that it pertains to this as well). And all this besides for the more obvious transgressions that will take place, such as lashon horah, fighting etc.
Then there is the issue with ruining your kids lives. having divorced parents is emotionally straining and scarring.
What’s more, I’m not sure how one can even think that living with a spouse one does not get along with is a fun concept, it can be a gehenom on earth, (see yevamos 63 a).
So in short, it is definitely not condoned by chazal, will cause numerous transgression, and there is a large likelihood of scarring the children for life, that besides for the fact that life is not enjoyable in such circumstances.
Of course if one gets married normally and for whatever reason, after marriage consoling etc, it doesn’t work out there is a reason why Hashem allowed divorce. But to get married al daas kein, is definitely wrong.We are to live our lives as the TORAH, a man should marry and cling to his wife. Divorce of today if because of where we put our minds. If people go and listen to Rav Avigdor Miller z’tzl people would not divorce. Close your owe to your neighbors things and make it a point to stay marry
No one gets married with the idea of getting divorced. Similarly, no one starts a school program (in university, yeshiva, trade school) with the idea of flunking out. No one starts a business with the idea of going bankrupt. No one starts life off with the intention of failure and misery. Maybe Olam ha-Zeh will work out for you, and maybe it won’t. But its not for us to just give up and not try.
If getting married with the intention of getting divorced after were an option, people would do that.
Yes RebYidd23, masochists
No, it’s like a lease. People would sign a prenup that states that the marriage is for a specified amount of time and can be renewed after that time if both parties agree. It’s everything but the long term commitment.
Isn’t that called having a boyfriend or girlfriend?
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