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In the Catskills we see older teenage girls riding bikes, electric scooter, ATVs and other such vehicles.
I have nothing against a girl having fun. My question is is there a Tznius issue or a chumrah to not let girls ride bikes…?
I’m referring to a case where they are wearing a long enough skirt that the knees are covered at all times on these vehicles.
In a case where everything is completely covered I dont see a problem.
Should girls be locked in-side, with the key thrown away?
There is no way for a girl who is wearing a skirt for her knee to remain covered during the duration of riding a bike.
BH my daughter and her friends were not locked inside, with the key thrown away. But she stopped riding a bike before bas mitzva. Not all activities are not allowed because of just a pure tzniyus issue. Some things are just not activities for a bas yisroel. Sure you’ll find many sectors of klal yisroel that would argue with this. But these same sectors also argue against “only” cholov yisroel, and some sectors argue for pants and who needs sheitels. Not every sector agrees what a chumrah is or what the normal derech hachaim should be. Are sheitels a chumrah? Is cholov yisroel a mere chumrah?
WIY, even long skirts will ride up above the knee when riding a bike.
If the girl is covered properly then i dont think it would be an issue, many women also put on sweat pants under their skirts as an extra precoution which in my oppinion is commendable.
theprof1: sheitals are actually a kulah. Many don’t use them. Chalav Yisrael in the US is merely a chumrah.
How about a Sea-Doo? Always wanted to try those… LOL.
every community has its own opinion. everyone, hopefully, has a rav. when in doubt. ask.
Since it is bike riding season almost all the time here in LA, many people go down to the beach and rent bikes for a ride on the bike path. I have known many yeshivish families that allow their older high school girls to go and rent bikes. It is actually a common activity a girls school (read Bais Yakov) or camp might do, even in the summer.
Forget the bike. How about a horse?
How about a Sea-Doo?
Wow, talk about la vida loca!
How else should they get around? They certainly can’t drive before they’re married!
laguy: If you see it, it doesn’t make it okay. The problem is not what Jews do, but what Judaism says. Jews are imperfect – we know that and accept it – but Judaism is perfect, and unchangeable. We do not make over G-d in our own image.
In my community in chu”l, there was an elderly couple who were Yekkes from the old country. He commuted all his working years by public transportation because he held private car ownership to be a frivolous mishegas, and overall, I don’t think I ever met a better example of refinement and hatznea leches. She was the Phys. Ed. teacher at the local BY wannabe school, and she commuted the @ 3 mile trip (one way) by bicycle, well into her eighties. Nobody voiced any complaint about this, and this is a town where chumras are hard currency.
Forgive my ignorance – what is a Razor?
just because people DO something, that does not make it right. this can also be reversed- just because people DONT do something, that does not make it wrong. i personally dont think there is anything with a girl riding a bike….or skating, or roller blading or anything else of the sort. as long as she is covered appropriately (probably not in a long skirt, as that may get stuck in the chain) what is the problem? people keep saying no to all different types of exercise, yet they expect young women to be thin and beautiful, AND to be in good enough shape to keep having kids. would anyone care to explain how a womany is supposed to stay in shape if all these different types of HEALTHY EXERCISE are banned?
BPT
Hey, you only live once 😉
razor=scooter (the kind that is silver and folds in half) I just saw a man in his 70;s scooting around yerushalayim on one—too funny!
what is a Razor?
My buddy Occam had one. 🙂
The Wolf
Wolf, you assume too much.
My wife asked a shilah of a rav and she was told that some sort of leggings under a skirt were “more than adequate” while riding a bicycle.
unless the girls would be riding bikes (or whatever) in an ALL GIRLS camp, or in some private closed off area, i think this would be a big breach in tznius. tznius is not only covering your knees. on a bike, the way one moves may not be so appropriate, and also, the whole idea of tznius is not drawing attention to yourself. i dunno about you, but no matter who is biking while i’m out (especially girls) i always notice them. and it’s not cuz i’m busy lookin’ around, it’s because they happen to attract attention!
charliehall – Is that the same rabbi who told her abortion is okay?
Occam HAD a razor? Many possible things to read into it…let me think of the simplest one…
so right – have you ever ridden a bike with a long skirt (I’m not sure if you’re a guy or a girl but I’m assuming a guy)? It is totally possible to ride a bike with a long skirt that won’t ride up.
Why should it be a problem? What’s wrong with it?
And please tell us how we are supposed to stay thin and gorgeous and healthy and all if we can’t leave our houses?
People really need to set standards that are realistic, especially in regard to others.
myfriend – I was simply stating a fact I wasn’t making a judgement. With that said, I have yet to see a place “in Judaism” where it says a woman MAY NOT ride a bike, assuming of course she is tzanua.
WIY – yes with men around. We haven’t yet figured out a way to keep the beaches here separate:)
I don’t think riding a bike and riding a scooter should be asked as part of the same question. One has very serious tznius issues (the bike, that may or may not easily be dealt with), while the other (Scooter, standing up) is just part of “should a girl be seen outside doing something other than…” kind of thing.
Never mind the driving a car – I get so mad when I hear it lumped into a “tznius” issue… (How much more covered up while outside can one get than being boxed up in a metal transportation mechanism)
The “ripstik”? Now that’s a whole other parsha. THAT is something that I think is the epitome of “untznius” – I hate to see even boys use it, but I absolutely would not allow my daughter to… for those who are not familiar with it, it’s a kind of a skateboard that to move forward you have to move your hips in a gyrating motion (think Michael Jackson!). And yet, I see the kids use it all the time. I think it’s really sad that none of the parents think twice about buying or letting their kids use it – especially older girls (tweens!)
Why doesn’t someone attach a link to one of this threads “older brother” (any one of the million threads discussing tznius) that was trending just a couple of weeks ago?
first of all, it is possible to ride a bike without the skirt going up.(i know from experience!)
second, driving a car is a tznius issue?! rlly? ive heard some crazy ones b4, but not that…
third not to b ignorant, but whats a sea doo? is it some kind of thing like see and do and i’m just missing it?! ich bin tzumisht!!!:)
I happen to think a bike has other tznius issues besides for a skirt one…
In antwerp you get men, boys and girls riding bikes, btw antwerp is a dead chassidishe place, so if it would be a tznius issue they wouldn’t do it cos chassidim are really makpid on tznius.
I have seen girls and women wearing”skorts” — which are a combination of shorts and skirts — or tights under the skirts (especially in Europe where it is cold).
is this off topic-
what about girls going to the indoor water parks fully dressed?
Do you let your bais yaakov girls go to miami where there is mixed beaches even if they are just watching and sitting there?
Mods, I’d like to call a double standard. You let a post by a Joseph-clone through where the clone implies that wearing leggings under a skirt is at least as bad as abortion and at the same time implied that Charliehall’s rav is a mumar who blanketly permits abortion. Would you have posted the equivalent about a chasidishe Rebbe? The closest I could think of would be if I were to say that the Gerrer Rebbe eats chazer solely as a way of annoying the Prof.
The better question is what is a woman doing outside? 😛
To be serious, are women halachically allowed to ride horses?
SJSinNYC- yes, woman are allowed to ride horses. I have gone personally a few times in my life. It is fun and there is nothing wrong. I wore a long skirt and were pants underneath also. 🙂
Riding bikes, if dressed tzniusly, I don’t think there’s anything wrong either. Unless the way you are riding, attracts attention….with the movements.
For those who asked:
there are plenty of indoor workout options. and walking is an exercise too…..
Consult with your Rav. Every community has its own standards. Follow your LOR.
It completely depends on what is acceptable in that community. Generally among charedi in Eretz Yisroel, girls don’t ride bikes after the age of 9.
I think the issue of riding bikes falls under minhag hamokem. It is untzniusdig, meaning it draws attention if the girl(s) stand out because it usyally isn’t done in that community. However if it is a regular occurance that one finds girls/women biking I think it is fine.
edited
I ride bikes and I jet ski and I horseback ride. I wear a special skirt that is long enough and flarey enough and I wear leggings underneath. If done properly its not a problem. But the girls that wear short straight skirts and bike ride that is definately a problem. Do it but do it the right way.
i can understand the issue of girls riding biked because of the tznius problem.however i dont think its a big enough problem to prohibit girls to have harmless and healthy fun.
Chol Hamoed Succos at the Bronx Zoo, I witnessed a frum teenaged girl teach the non jewish girl at the camel ride a thing or 2 about tznius. The girl wouldnt ride on the camel without a blanket she brought along because her skirt would ride up. The non jewish employee was so intrigued that after the “ride” (its like 60-90 seconds) she asked her a few questions about tznius. (just figured i’d throw in the story, since more often than not on this site there is a negative slant to most tznius topics brought up).
First of all, as someone said it depends a lot on minhag hamakom. Also, it really is different in the city than in the mountains. I wouldn’t ride anything in the city but I think in the mountains I would.
Absolutely forbidden. All the activities listed above do not fall under what a Bas Yisroel does.
forbidden is a bit strong. i would say that people with a sensitivity to tznius and have some understanding for a mans yetzer wouldnt do it, but its not ossur. and yes, it does hurt me to be so liberal sometimes.
forbidden is a bit strong. i would say that people with a sensitivity to tznius and have some understanding for a mans yetzer wouldnt do it, but its not ossur. and yes, it does hurt me to be so liberal sometimes.
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