Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Is it halachically wrong to give Tzedakah to a known addict?
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October 28, 2011 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #600235always runs with scissors fastParticipant
If I were asked for tzedakah by a person who looks needy but is actually a drug addict, and although he lives within the heimishe community, and his parents are charedi, should I /could I give him tzedakah or its wrong?
October 28, 2011 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #824498JotharMemberGive him food instead.
October 28, 2011 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #824499adorableParticipantMy neighbor does exactly that! they give someone foods. they cannot give him money because he will buy drugs but he is dirt poor!
October 28, 2011 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #824500BTGuyParticipantThere are times where if you “suspect” a person is not truly needy, or asking for money for the right reasons, and you give anyway, it is a merit on your part. There are other times where, as I understand, you dont have to give, but I think that has more to do with the frequency of them coming to you for money. I am not saying what to do other than ask a Rabbi about this. In my opinion, though, even drug addicts do need help in a lot of ways.
October 28, 2011 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #824501yungerman1ParticipantIt very well may be a problem of ????? ??? ?? ??? ?????.
October 28, 2011 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #824502OneOfManyParticipantWhat’s the bottom line on giving goyish panhandlers tzedakah?
October 28, 2011 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #824503daughterofHashemMemberThe solution is quite simple, give him food, clothes, or other necessities he may need. Additionally speak to a Rav and see if you can get someone to sponsor rehab for him. That would be the greatest chessed you can do for him. Help him without giving him money.
BTGguy- If he is poor you have a chiyuv to help him even if he is a drug addict. There are ways to help him out without allowing it to feed his addiction
October 28, 2011 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #824504Sam2ParticipantScissors: Why the need to mention that he is Heimish/Chareidi? Who cares? Should that have any bearing on this case? He’s a Jew who’s an addict. That should be the discussion. Why is the background relevant if not to inspire pity/contempt from those who are Chareidi/not Chareidi respectively?
October 30, 2011 12:59 am at 12:59 am #824505optimusprimeMemberAbsolutely forbidden unless granted permission by the Gedolei HaDor.
October 30, 2011 2:43 am at 2:43 am #824506always runs with scissors fastParticipantSam2, I am not sure why I felt compelled to make that part of the description, but I wanted to paint an accurate picture. I felt that was important for some reason. BUt I like what you’re saying that the fact that he is a Jew is the only bottome line.
October 30, 2011 4:57 am at 4:57 am #824507Sam2ParticipantARWSF: Is his hair and eye color important for painting an accurate picture? I apologize if I’m being offensive here, but it greatly bothers me when people imply that being Chareidi or not-Chareidi can have a Halachic Nafka Mina sometimes. IMO, it’s an absolutely terrible mindset and does no one any good. The only relevant facts in this case is that he is a Torah-observant Jew (who obviously has some issues with certain Ta’avos). Once again, I apologize if I’m coming off as rude.
October 30, 2011 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #824508always runs with scissors fastParticipantSam2 take it easy. Nobody is saying drug addicts can only come from Charedi households. ( I know that is not what you’re arguing- I am being cynical at this point )
THe fact is that I thought by depicting an accurate portrayal of his life, and background that would make it seem like having a heimishe warm family means he IS being taken care of and maybe for that reason, is not in true need of tzedakah.
I never mentioned this charedi business to make him seem like a bigger jewish drug addict ok?
Relax
October 30, 2011 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #824509minyan galMemberSam 2, it shouldn’t even matter if he/she is Torah observant or not. The fact that the addict is Jewish is all that matters. His parents are just as upset as frum parents and he needs just as much help as a frum person. We are all from the same Klal and should be obligated to help each other when needed.
October 31, 2011 12:15 am at 12:15 am #824510Sam2ParticipantMinyan gal: I only mentioned Torah-observant because I believe there are some who claim that there is no Mitzvah of Tzedaka by someone who isn’t Shomer Halacha.
October 31, 2011 2:01 am at 2:01 am #824511minyan galMemberSam2 – if that were true, then all of the frum organizations should stop accepting donations from non-frum Jews. Unfortunately, they could never afford to do this because the bulk of their donations come from just these people. I recently read an article – can’t remember where and can’t quote any stats – but the gist of it was what I have just stated. BTE, I am not saying that you believe this – you even said that “there are some who claim”. As Jews, we are all in this thing called life, together. We really must stick together because there are so many that would like to destroy our nation. Sometimes, when I read the news on many frum websites and see how much space is devoted to (for lack of a better word) sect upon sect violence and fighting, I begin to think that we will never be able to stay together as a Klal. We seem to be doing a fairly good job of destroying ourselves. I never seem to read about Protestants against other Protestants, etc. Why do you think there is so much of this infighting amongst Yidden? (boy have I gone off topic)
October 31, 2011 2:13 am at 2:13 am #824512aries2756ParticipantBy giving an addict money you are helping to feed and support his addiction. The only chessed a person can do is support a person’s sobriety so if you wish you can offer a hot meal or a coat to keep him warm or a referral to a therapist or rehab.
October 31, 2011 9:42 am at 9:42 am #824513minyan galMemberAries, I completely agree with you on that point. I would never give cash to an addict, but I would offer to buy him/her a meal or chat with him for awhile to recommend a rehab program or ask if he wishes to be put in touch with someone from an organization such as JACS.
October 31, 2011 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #824514☕️coffee addictParticipantI just realized I could comment on this
Yes, you can give tzedakah to me
October 31, 2011 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #824515cherrybimParticipantThere is a flip side to this question.
Most addicts will do just about anything to feed their addiction. Many a “frum” girl will sell her body and “frum” men will steal to get their needed fixes. So while your money will indeed be used to temporarily satisfy the addiction, you are also preventing additional aveiros.
Other issues: What about the tobacco addict; $25 of your tzedaka gets burned up every day, or about $8000 a year, to the poor guy who smokes.
And what about the fat collector? If the poor schnorrer is obese and can’t control his food cravings, your tzedaka money is going to the pizza store or restaurant across the street.
And what if the poor guy loves fine wine and spirits?
The only criteria that the torah mentions is that you are to give to your poor brother; the rest is up to him.
October 31, 2011 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #824516Sam2ParticipantCherrybim: There is clearly a difference between spending Tzedaka money on drugs and spending it on more or fancier food than necessary.
October 31, 2011 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #824517HealthParticipantcherrybim -“Most addicts will do just about anything to feed their addiction. Many a “frum” girl will sell her body and “frum” men will steal to get their needed fixes. So while your money will indeed be used to temporarily satisfy the addiction, you are also preventing additional aveiros.”
While you make interesting points -your post is full of fallicies.
You don’t know for sure how they will get the money if not by your donation, so that isn’t your Cheshbon. But if there is a good chance that your donation will be used to buy drugs, then you can’t give them any money.
“Other issues: What about the tobacco addict; $25 of your tzedaka gets burned up every day, or about $8000 a year, to the poor guy who smokes.
And what about the fat collector? If the poor schnorrer is obese and can’t control his food cravings, your tzedaka money is going to the pizza store or restaurant across the street.
And what if the poor guy loves fine wine and spirits?”
While you make good points about other addictions, there are inherent differences; although if the guy is an obvious Wino, I would put him in the same category as the drug addict.
While there might be health dangers with regards to smoking & overeating, they are acceptable in our society. So this can’t be taken into account if the person is indeed in need of Tzedaka!
October 31, 2011 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #824518cherrybimParticipant“You don’t know for sure how they will get the money if not by your donation”
You mean whether they will steal, rob or prostitute themselves; any other options for a drug addict?
So what would you say to the mother who collects money for her daughter’s addiction so that the daughter won’t have to sell herself?
The Rambam says that if a fellow is used to the finer things in life and becomes poor, you are m’chuyiv to support him in the standard of his lifestyle; fine wines, steaks, Brooks Brothers and all.
October 31, 2011 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #824519HealthParticipantcherrybim -“You mean whether they will steal, rob or prostitute themselves; any other options for a drug addict?”
They can also go to the next unsuspecting guy and collect from him. You should not give this person money -it’s not your responsibility how the drug addicts acquires his drugs -only if you help him.
“So what would you say to the mother who collects money for her daughter’s addiction so that the daughter won’t have to sell herself?”
As far as giving the mother money (knowing that she is supporting a druggie) -no you should not.
“The Rambam says that if a fellow is used to the finer things in life and becomes poor, you are m’chuyiv to support him in the standard of his lifestyle; fine wines, steaks, Brooks Brothers and all.”
What exactly is the relevance of this Halacha to this case? He is just defining an Oni whom is allowed to collect Tzedaka.
October 31, 2011 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #824520always runs with scissors fastParticipantWhen I hand over a few coins to a man begging, I prefer to just know I did my “part” by giving to the needy without knowing what he is going to use it for. And what he does with it after wards is his business. But even if I did know that he was giong to use the tzedakah for drugs,,,,in a way, i do think its kind and considerate to give tzedakah to a druggie because then we are preventing a multitude of possible dangerous situations he can come to- including aveiros and death in a “druggie lifestyle & culture”.
He won’t have to sell his body, his soul, or steal or kill. And until he gets read drug addiction treatment he won’t suffer without his badly needed drugs that should he go without can cause tremdendous suffering and sickness. Physiologically and psychologically
November 1, 2011 6:27 am at 6:27 am #824521HealthParticipantalways runs with scissors fast -While it’s nice to feel for others even druggies, your response is purely emotional. While I’m not saying being emotional is a bad thing, but you can’t let your emotions overide the Torah. It’s Ossur to give a druggie money if you’re pretty sure he will buy drugs with the money!
November 1, 2011 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #824522always runs with scissors fastParticipanthealth- wow. I learned something . I didnt know that. Its really ossur?
November 1, 2011 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #824523Sam2ParticipantOf course, it should be Lifnei Iver (or at least helping someone commit a sin-Misaya Yedei Ovrei Aveirah).
November 2, 2011 2:00 am at 2:00 am #824524lemaysaMemberits betterm if you can help him out either finding and help paying for a safe haven for him to recover…but just because he’s a drug addict doesnt necciserly mean he’s gonna spend his money on drugs theres a chiyuv to be dan likaf zichus evey yid in klal yisroel..
November 2, 2011 2:03 am at 2:03 am #824525HealthParticipantSam – thanks for responding for me.
November 2, 2011 2:10 am at 2:10 am #824526WolfishMusingsParticipantI’m an oxygen addict. Without it, I suffer great distress and my body undergoes severe biochemical changes.
I guess it’s assur to give me tzedaka.
The Wolf
November 2, 2011 4:21 am at 4:21 am #824527HealthParticipantWolf – Sorry to burst your inferiority complex bubble, but I am very science oriented and you aren’t correct. An addiction is something craved by the body which the body doesn’t need and more often than not is harmful to the body. It starts with a psychological craving and can end up being a physical one. O2 doesn’t qualify in this definition.
As a side note those whom frequent oxygen bars could possibly become psychologically attached to the oxygen there. That oxygen is for kicks, not to maintain homeostasis!
November 2, 2011 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #824528HealthParticipantlemaysa -“but just because he’s a drug addict doesnt necciserly mean he’s gonna spend his money on drugs theres a chiyuv to be dan likaf zichus evey yid in klal yisroel..”
There’s two things going on at the same time -you might have to Dan L’caf Zecus & possibly two Issurim like Sam mentioned. So if there is a good chance he will use the money to buy drugs -it would be Ossur to give him money. If you know that – let’s say for example, he is in a Methadone program -so most of his drugs come from there, you can give him money because it’s unlikely he will spend it on drugs. But on the other hand, if he isn’t, he will probably spend his money on drugs which yours is a part of. This would be Ossur!
November 7, 2011 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #824529lemaysaMemberfirst of all being dan likaf zichus means to go to even a extreme to judge a fellow jew for the good ..second of all as the brother of a recoverd addict i know that if their coming to you for money most probobly for food and if u tell them not to spend it on drugs they will respect that
November 8, 2011 2:13 am at 2:13 am #824530Sam2ParticipantBeing Dan L’chaf Zechus is a Chiyuv in how you think, not act. If another Jew asks you to buy a treif burger from McDonald’s, then you are Over on Lifnei Iver if you buy it for him, even if you personally want to be Dan L’chaf Zechus and think he’s buying it for his dog.
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