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Is Harry Potter something that a ben torah should be reading?
As much as any secular non-educational book is.
Is reading non-Jewish fiction kosher?
While the idea of a suffering hero is Christian, the idea of a persecuted minority with a vibrant advanced culture hidden from the general society is a Jewish theme. The author is a Christian and the Christian themes are visible in the book if you know what to look for.
Certainly as “OK” for an older reader as any other highly-regarded secular fictional work but would NOT recommend for younger (pre-teen) readers. If your practice is to not to allow your kids access to ANY secular books, media etc, (other than required for school-work) than its not an issue. As always, your LRP is a useful checkpoint but the decision is ultimately that of parent.
No human is kosher.
I don’t know, I never got to read the books, but Google “jk rowling jewish”. She appears to be strongly and vocally against anti-Semites!
She has said countless times that dumbledore likes men
No way!!!!
Not pas yisroel
For a Ben Torah absolutely not!!
In middle of the road kind of person, and watches movies then nothing wrong. Great books and movies. The kids will start reading and won’t put the book down. Great to get your child into reading.
I personally don’t ascribe to the “everything created by goyim is assur” view. The problem with Harry Potter is that the author has allegedly said in the past that it’s a metaphor for Christianity. It could be a myth given that she’s known to be an extreme social leftist.
Coffee addict, just because she said it, doesn’t mean it’s “true”. She had her chance to put that in when she wrote the books.
In 2002, (only three of the books were published at the time) Harav Moshe Meir Weiss of the Agudah of Staten Island wrote a book entitled “A Torah Perspective for our Challenging Times” and dedicated a whole chapter to what we can learn from the Harry Potter books. He did caution that later books might be problematic as the 3 main characters become teenagers and how “clean” the author would keep it as hormones start to rage (which Rowlings pretty much did although other comments afterwards about the adult characters is definitely an issue). As an aside, Rabbi Weiss dedicated the book in memory of the firefighters from Staten Island who died on 9/11/2001).
Maybe the first three.
“She has said countless times that dumbledore likes men”
This thread is not about whether or not our children should be perusing JK Roweling’s twitter.Ry23,
That’s true but then any עדות wouldn’t say something is true, it’s her character and she can do anything she wants with him especially since there’s nothing saying the opposite in her book
Anything that is not explicitly written in the books is for the reader to decide, and the author no longer gets to add.
So since stories don’t mention that the main character is human I can add that they are animals?
There is no hint in any of the books that Dumbledore is gay it was only added recently so that the LGBT+ and SJWs etc. Won’t go crazy that everyone in the book is normal
There are strong hints of christianity throughout the books especially towards the end for example harry dies and comes back and saves everyone (pretty obvious what that’s referring to) and there’s sentences in the books which are word for word copies of sentences in different books of the fake testament
the psychologist Jordan peterson who says that he doesn’t believe in any religion likes to talk about the connection between harry potter and ChristianityCoffee addict, the characters are clearly described as human, and shown in the book behaving like humans. If a character is never said to smoke cigarettes or hate the color orange in the book, the author shouldn’t get to tell everyone years later that the character smokes and hates orange.
1-3 are kosher. 4-7 aren’t as they are teenagers. The cursed prince requires parent decision as it is slightly problematic. i believe the 2 books of the new play series also is on a similiar level as the cursed prince.
The cursed prince does not make any sense whatsoever and is a waste of time to read.
In regard to religious ideas, my aunt says it is a mashal to the constant battle b/w the yetzer harah(voldy) and yetzer tov(dumbledore).
Events can mostly be translated into jewish stuff also.To me these posts are unbelievable, I never knew the strong contrast of Chassidim and non Chassidim (no offense, but misoch Ahavas Yisroel whoever has such a mentality will never really* taste the sweetness of pure kedusha), I’m a Lubavitcher chossid and anyone in my community even the more modern ones (who might not hold all chasidishe standards at the moment) would agree that’s pass nisht for a Yiddishe home. First it’s bittul Torah, bechukoseyem lo seleichu! How much goyishkeit subconscious influence! I would be embarrassed to have such a book in my house! I’m an open minded person, but my Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson Z”L taught me Yiddiskeit and chinuch for our children must be 110% pure! Chinuch al taharas a kodesh, The RRebbe was even against having pictures and toys of non kosher animals at home, said chinuch starts in the womb literally.
YA, this has nothing to do with chassidim vs. non chassidim. The very frum yeshivish don’t read read it the same way the very chassidish Lubavichers don’t read it. And vice versa.
YA – your post is pure baloney, but I assume you know that as it is somewhat obvious from your tone that you are being completely facetious.
“YA, this has nothing to do with chassidim vs. non chassidim.”
You’re comparing the frummest Litvaks to chassidim. B’klal, we all know Litvaks are more likely to be OK with this than chassidim. Most normal yeshivas have English classes where they read books (not necessarily Harry Potter).
NCB; What is a “normal” Yeshiva?
By the way, in Lashon Hakodesh there is no word for normal!yehoshuaahron – No english books but The rebbe was fine with you going on the internet?
yehoshuaahron – No english books but The rebbe was fine with you going on the internet?
yehoshuaaron – no english books but the Rebbe was fine with the internet.
It is true chabadnicks dont allow toy non-kosher animals in the house. So no piggy banks or Stuffed Elephants
You’re comparing the frummest Litvaks to chassidim.
I’m comparing not so frum Litvaks to not so frum Lubavichers.
Ok firstly I can’t argue with the internet replies… Your right.
It’byt it’s still different though, by having filtered internet although you do have access to news and some goyish influence, that’s still different than buying, bringing, and putting that in my shelf. My kids would understand that I have a computer for the purpose of business, otzar hachochna, communication, etc. But I’m mode anyway. I should have a white* list internet filter not just the regular.
Worth to mention the Rebbe said having a TV is like bringing the galach himself through the door… Kal vachomer internet… But I don’t know what he would say about filters… probably white list… Matan Torah is coming up, I should think about this one…
“קבלת התורה בשמחה ובפנימיות” to all. (Nusach of the Frierdiker Rebbe’s)Harry Potter teaches Judeo-Christian values, not simply Christian values.
The book teaches children about the importance of being virtuous, moral, principled, and loyal, as well as the importance of standing for what’s right in the face of evil, tyranny, and persecution. These are human values, not Christian values, ones that don’t require the characters to wear a yarmulke to understand how they can apply to one’s own life.
The author makes sure not to mention of any specific religion, and the magic theme is supernatural as opposed to being based in religion (if anyone had concerns of kishuv).
I’m sure you can look for Christian themes and parallels in the books if you are trying to find a reason to ban it from your home, otherwise, your kids will enjoy a fun read about a the adventures of a modest boy and his friends who face and overcome challenges and adversaries together by sticking to their principles and always trying to do what is right, instead of what is easy.
HH
no
As much as any secular non-educational book is.
Surely you’d agree that some such books are less suitable than others?
While the idea of a suffering hero is Christian
Not all literature with a heroic protagonist who suffers is intended Christian symbolism.Yeshivaaron: “I’m an open minded person, but my Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson Z”L taught me ….”
He is NOT your Rebbe. refer to this week’s Ami Magazine pg. 87a ben torah shouldnt do anything that takes away is mind from torah.
@Defend Chabad if you have to refer to AMI Magazine for literally anything other than “This is what it says in AMI Magazine” you’ve already lost whatever argument you’re trying to hold.
@ NCB
“B’klal, we all know Litvaks are more likely to be OK with this than chassidim”
Not true.
Harry Potter isn’t Kosher.
But Bernie Bott’s Jelly Beans are. So are Chocolate Frogs (if you eat chalav stam.)
Jelly Belly makes both.The Muggle version of Bertie Bott’s doesn’t have every flavor, and it comes with a chart so that you can identify the flavors you have without tasting them.
I like the juxtaposition of this threat (Harry Potter) with the OTD threads. Of course, the irony of people discussing such on the internet goes without saying. I have read many threads here that prohibit — in addition to what the Torah actually prohibits — non-Jewish books, non Jewish music, watching sports, newspapers, movies, secular studies — i am sure i missed some. I am at a loss to understand why certain children — and adults may decide that such a life is not for them.
MrSL613:
Will you acknowledge that the average non-Jewish work of fiction (marketed
to adults) contains material universally acknowledged as forbidden?MrSL613:
Will you acknowledge that the average non-Jewish work of fiction (marketed
to adults) contains material universally acknowledged as forbidden?I dont know. There is a lot of fiction out there. I am glad that you limited this to adults. Even so — and I dont mean to be cute but we have to define the “ISSUR” included in “reading”. (Let’s assume for this particular conversation we are not talking about explicit novels.) Where is the “issur” found and what does it include? Is it forbidden to read a curse word? Is it forbidden to read about forbidden acts (Shabbos/Kashrus)? (And – the issur of bittul torah etc. is not so convincing to me). Is it forbidden to read about people/things that dont share our values? (And — by the way — if people dont want to read novels, or watch movies, or watch sports — more power to them. The word “assur” is the language of “aveirah”. AND the topic we were discussing is whether telling our children that many things are forbidden keeps them on the derech or pushes them off. To that end, there are threads are sports kosher, star wars, books, etc. As for me — if it is not explicitly assur it is permitted. (And the reason i believe that — is that in essence that is how most people live — especially ones who use the internet.)
(Let’s assume for this particular conversation we are not talking about explicit novels.)
We are. Because if we weren’t talking about any novel that includes explicit material,
we’d be talking about far, far fewer books. Material may not need to be “explicit” to
be forbidden for the same reason, and there’s your undisputed explicit issur.
(I did not mention bittul Torah, and in a discussion of the
specific content of works, you shouldn’t have either.)I taught English in a Bais Yaakov & I assigned book reports. I wouldn’t allow my students to write a report on Harry Potter; I read #1 & I consider it to be avodah zora-dik. I wouldn’t let my own kids read it either. I’m all for reading decent literature (I have a list of appropriate novels for frum kids) and even though JK Rowling is a gifted writer, I can’t recommend that series. The one advantage of those novels is they got kids reading again! But there are so many quality novels that have kosher content on the market. BTW, in compiling my list I reached out to NY Diocese Catholic Schools & they were very gracious in sharing their approved book list with me.
Rowling’s ex parte description of Dumbledore’s predilection brings up an interesting machlokes in the theory of Literary Criticism referred to in those circles as “the Death of the Author”. The question is whether the characters and story exist in the author’s mind, in which case it is perfectly understandable that the author can offer perush and explanation of his or her work or, say, describe what his or her characters do after the end of the published work, or do the characters and story only exist on the printed page. Any activity or character development outside of the text is unknown and unknowable because the author is (figuratively) dead. In the latter case, if it is not mentioned in the text it doesn’t exist.
MRSARAHLEVINE613:
YOU SHOULD BE WRITING FOR ATSCROLL FOR USING YOUR FANCY SHMANSY SYNONYMS BUTTON ON MICROSOFT AND COMING UP WITH WORDS LIKE “JUXTAPOSITION”Cholent is apparently put off by someone who actually speaks (and writes) English. Okay, for you we’ll confine ourselves to words of two or less syllables (That means “small words” for you, Cholent)
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