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I just hung up the phone with a friend. We were discussing depression and the typical treatment given, namely- ZOLOFT.
She told me that this is more common than you’d expect. Just about every other lady on the street (chassidishe) is on it.
What do you think? Is it true? Whats going on here? Dont we all experience downs? Isnt’ life and marital relationships always challenging? Aren’t kids suppose to drive their parents nuts? WHy are we getting drugged for everything? Or does every lady have an issue after xxx amount of children?
NOt everyone is on Zoloft! The others are on Paxil and Prozac! 🙂
Welburtrin, xanax, ……….
alcohol
It may be very common but not all women take drugs, no need to. As far as your insinuation with xxx amount of children, well those who need drugs will do so with even one child. Lets put things into perspective. I will share a story with you, a family member told me that her dayin told her to go on birth control after one of her children were born. She was amazed, she didnt see the need for it so she asked him why? The dayan answered ” You pick, it will be either birth control or pills for your nerves!
The term depression is way overused these days. Most of these women on meds are probably not clinically depressed. These days, one thing goes wrong and they are sad for a day or 2 and all of the sudden they are “depressed”. So they flip out and go on unnecessary medication.
who says it is true? How does your friend know?
To the OP: No, that’s crazy.
If anything, our community suffers from people denying mental illness and refusing to treat it.
They go running for the shelter of a mother’s little helper. These drugs are expensive, though.
No need to discriminate against genders, there are plenty of men on meds as well.
In the secular world practically every ‘type A’ personality is on zoloft. It is so common that you dont even need a psychiatrist to prescribe it to you- you can get it from your regular Dr.
This medication trend is seeping into our community. Maybe you feel that it isnt necessary for some pple, but the facts are that they help pple cope. Many use zoloft as an antianxiety, and not necessarily for depression. It helps them lead productive lives in a way in which they woulndt be able to w/o it.
Is it ideal? absolutey not.
There are surely alternate ways in dealing with anxiety or depression (that isnt severe). However some pple choose this path, and it definitely works.
Always Runs: I don’t appreciate your comment about Chasidishe women exclusively? Are you living your life that sheltered thinking it’s only in your circles?
cinderella – “The term depression is way overused these days.”
It’s overused by the general public. No medical professional who has to prescribe these drugs gives them to people who aren’t clinically depressed. The incidence of depression and/or mental illness is probably greater amongst Frum people than others. Probably there aren’t enough people on these drugs. Most people with mental illness are in denial. There are probably a few reasons for this widespead mental illness – mainly because we have to keep up with the Joneses, more than other groups!
Throwing words as almost every other woman and Chassidish is very vague. Did your so called friend do a study? Does she have data? Does she have a questionaire that help her come to this determination and vague statistics? We are humans that may be affected by changes in our system, but to run for the bottle does not solve the problem. There is so much in regard to shiurim and books that one can read to strenghten them. In life one has to face and deal with reality. Going for a pill will just make someone sink deeper. In short, B”H there are not as many sick people, some people make themselves sick! Next time you feel down, sit down and read some Tehillim or go for a walk and you will see the difference. And for those that really are not well have a Refuah Shelaima both refuas hanefesh and refuas haguf!
I’m not depressed or a woman and I’m on it, I feel great!
This is all just the tip of the iceberg….
WOA you guys have it ALL wrong!!! As a girl in HS suffering from severe depression, anorexia, anxiety and ocd, I can tell you depression is not something to make light of. I wasn’t on medication until I went for 3 months of therapy and was STILL depressed. Medication helped me ENORMOUSLY! And another to add to the list would be Prozac. Depression is something built up over years of trauma, neglect, or whatever it is. It is NOT overused, it is unfortunately more common these days. In todays day, with so many people who don’t know how to treat others, many people end up suffering for years and years. I’m sorry to say cinderella, I was kind of hurt by your post. Please don’t make light of such a pressing issue. If any of you want to find out the slightest bit about depression you can read the poetry thread.
Health: “The incidence of depression and/or mental illness is probably greater amongst Frum people than others. “
too many ‘probably’s. Can you give us some firm evidence?
“There are probably a few reasons for this widespead mental illness – mainly because we have to keep up with the Joneses, more than other groups!”
and yet every time i try posting something to that effect…it gets shot down…
i cant speak for every other chassidishe woman, but i CAN speak for my family and i know that when life became a bit difficult for my grandmother to handle…she doctor shopped for zoloft and wound up in the hospital with a rare side effect…
B”H i have no ide what you talking about!! i’m a woman.. who has had children.. & i’m not on my meds! and i know for sure that noone of my friends are on either (although, i could recommend that a couple of them might benefit!)
How do you “know for sure” that none of your friends are on it? They all keep you apprised of their mental health orders?
No need for pills ?”?. My children keep me sane!!! (posting too)
soliek -“and yet every time i try posting something to that effect…it gets shot down…”
I guess it depends on How you say it -on How you dress it up.
chocandpatience -“too many ‘probably’s. Can you give us some firm evidence?”
This was told to me by a Choshuve Frum Mental Health Professional. And no I didn’t question him -“How do you know?”.
So take it or leave it.
What I found in the Frum community is if you’re a popular Medical prof. then they never question you on anything you do, no matter how questionable it might be. It’s like Torah Moshe Me’sinai.
Either you question e/o or noone. Or just question things that aren’t common sense, if you don’t like my first suggestion.
Anyway if you want to know more about mental illness in the Frum community -there is an org. called Relief. I’m pretty sure they have a website, where you can get info.
For all you arm chair psychiatrists, please don’t lump all issues under one category “depression”. There are many issues that women are afflicted with ranging from stress, anxiety, panic attacks to full blown depression.
In addition, without knowing what is happening behind the closed doors of each individual family how dare you make choizek, judge or even comment about what even one women needs to do to cope with whatever she has to juggle. Aside from her own chemical and hormonal balance, there can be many variables that come into play including spouse, parents, in-laws, children, siblings, in-law siblings, job, neighbors, finances, community, health, weight, self-esteem, self-confidence, LACK OF SLEEP, etc., etc, ….need I go on? There are many reasons why a doctor will prescribe something to take the edge off and help a patient cope. And there are many reasons why a patient would be stressed, anxious find themselves falling into panic attacks or even falling into depression.
blabla- I am so sorry. I did not mean to hurt or offend you in any way. And I do know what you are going through. About 5 years ago I also suffered from depression. I was going through a really hard time in my life and I was really depressed. Baruch Hashem, I was able to move past those obstacles and now I am living life happily and healthy.
I am not trying to say that depression isn’t a real thing. Unfortunately, it is. But it is a term that is overused by the general public. People do go on depression medication for no valid reason. Chas V’shalom was I saying that depression isn’t a problem. I know firsthand that it is. And I do read your poems on the poetry thread. You are really talented. I wish you all the best and don’t worry, one day this will pass and you will be able to live life a happy person. Again, if I offended you, I’m sorry.
Always: Have you ever heard of Sparks? They are an organization which deals specifically with post partum depression. They won’t put you on Zoloft if you dont need it. Give them a call. If you need the number I can get it for you.
always, or maybe you need another psychiatrist. The good ones don’t give you these meds without making sure you see a therapist as well. They have no intention of covering up your issues with medication, they do however intend to “help” you work through your issues hand in hand with a therapist. Unless there is a chemical imbalance in your brain where you NEED medication to function at a normal level, the medication a doctor will give you to help you cope is only a temporary fix while you work with a therapist to deal with your issues. If your Psychiatrist is new to you, why would you just assume that it is OK to take meds without discussing it with your MD or GYN or the doctor you trust the most?
How did you get your psychiatrist? Did you get her by recommendation or did you just get her from your insurance company? If you read the flyer that came with every medication you would never, ever take anything. Every single medication seems deadly if you read the warnings. Furthermore just because you had a bad experience that doesn’t mean that everyone will have the same experience. So those who really need these medications should not be swayed by what you are saying and should discuss their medications with their health care providers. Every single person’s case is different and needs to be dealt with on an individual basis. You can’t lump them all together.
ARWSF -“One of the reasons they over prescribe everybody is that they are making profit from the drug companies. Zoloft and others pay out to psychiatrists for writing the prescription. Its off record, but its done.”
They don’t over prescribe. In all fields there are practioners who aren’t on the up & up, but most medical prof. are Not like this. So don’t characterize us all on the actions of a few!
“These brought me before a well known psychiatrist in the community recently who deals with Perinatal and Post Partum depression. What was her conclusion? That I need Zoloft.”
Why is this a Chiddush to you?
“My point is that before people accept a report from a psychiatrist or a family doctor that ok you have depression- take this med…they should first try using natural methods such as Cognitive Behavioral THerapy.”
This point is already well known. Most people whom go to their family doctor or on their own feel like they are suffering from anxiety and/or depression FIRST make an appt. with a counselor, either a MSW or a psychologist. Usually it’s the therapist whom recommends drugs if they feel the patient will benefit from them and then they are given a referral to a psychiatrist. Most people have the shrink originally prescribe and then go to their GP for refills because Shrink appts. are costly. CBT is a type of therapy that is practiced by these prof.
“Oh, and when I contacted the psychiatrist and told her listen I need to get off this for the above reasons, she told me that electrical painful shocks or brain zapping is not a reason to go off the med.
I was thiking sure it is, because I may one day want to stop taking it and then I`ll suffer from this, no? OR be trapped on it.”
The Doc is right. All drugs have side effects. In this case the drug also has withdrawl effects. In medicine the principle is to weigh the benefit vs. the risk. The drug is given when the benefit outweighs the risk. This is what your Doc feels in your case. Just because some drugs have side effects and/or withdrawl effects, most people won’t experience any of these. It is foolish to think that I’ll be from the minority!
Cinderella-No problem, I just wanted to make sure everyone understood depression. People tend to “make light” of it and call people on meds retarded and things. They just don’t realize the truth of what it is.
i cant talk for women because im just a man but what blabla and aries said is at least in my case 100% true. i suffered and still suffer from depressions and am taking meds. It took over a year and changing of psychiatrists to get to the meds that really worked. and of course im on therapy as well and the same applied for this as well: it took more than 2 therapists to find the right one. The issues can be widespread as mentioned above. getting off meds is not a simple thing to do. it has to be with the doc ur seein, slowly and most of all the right decision. i had my bad experience with it as well. meds are no solution its just a way to help you be able to deal with urself much better. distancing urself from the turmoil(or whatever it is) that your in. And yes many men take anti depressions.
Hi always runs with scissors fast.
The “over prescribing of America” is a big problem. Plus, the underlying cause of this is to line the pockets of those in that field, and boost the economy. But, on the other hand, every culture has it’s “drugs”, anyway, and America thinks if it’s prescription, its ok.
No one is safe from being a target of the medical/pharmaceutical complex, including children. It’s terrible.
Hi Jothar. Very appropriate and interesting quote. lol
always, if your ob/gyn felt that you needed therapy and intervention from a mental health professional then they were more qualified than you to make that decision and also to decide if you needed the meds and when you should go off of them. Obviously the patient is NOT the best person to make the judgement call.
BTW, Insurance companies have taken a stronger hold on prescription drugs and what they will and won’t pay for. Many very necessary and helpful drugs are no longer on Insurance formularies and doctors really have to fight hard to get these medications for their patients. They don’t do this because they get a kickback from the drug companies. They do this because their patients are suffering.
BT guy- “The “over prescribing of America” is a big problem. Plus, the underlying cause of this is to line the pockets of those in that field, and boost the economy”
Stop with your consipracy theories. Only a few medical prescribers do this – most don’t & are Ehrlich (if you know what this means)! Does it make you happy putting down a group of people who by & far have dedicated their lives to helping others?
ARWF -“And the over prescribing done just because some one had a bad day.”
Stop putting down the Shrink! S/he did their job. It’s not their fault you don’t understand the job of a psychiatrist. Most nowadays don’t give therapy (eg. CBT) -only medications or other therapy modalities. S/he prescribed medication -they did Not
over-prescribe!
It’s either your fault that you don’t know/understand this or the fault of your Ob/gyn for referring you to a psychiatrist instead of a therapist! It’s probably both your faults -you didn’t explain exactly what type of help you wanted and the Ob/gyn didn’t take the time to pull it out of you, even though you didn’t specify!
The only lesson you can learn from your story is you must be able to Communicate to your PCP/GP (Internist, OB/Gyn, Pediatrician).
Not that there is side effects or withdrawl effects with medications. Almost every medication in the world has these, but the benefits outweigh the risks! So your Chiddush of “Again this is about the dangers of zoloft”, is no Chiddush to 99% of the world!
Btguy, thanks!
Always if you needed help maybe you shouldn’t have “called” for assistance but rather made an appointment to actually meet with a professional face to face to make an informed decision as to what was actually going on with you and what was the best treatment to seek. It seems like either you don’t trust your OB/GYN, you don’t actually have a relationship, or you tell her what you want and she just complies. If you don’t have the time or inclination to actually go for an evaluation what do you expect? If you wanted an easy out that is what you get. If you want real answers and real treatment then you make the effort to seek it out. And that includes getting involved in your own treatment. And I am not saying that to criticize or put you down. I am saying that because most of us do that. We just don’t take the proper care of ourselves or make time to take care of ourselves like we do to take care of the rest of the family.
The first line of defense is to find out why we are feeling the way we are, the second is working on the issue and the third is taking medication to help out. If you want a quick fix or you don’t make the time to work on your issues with appropriate professionals you might not get the desired outcome.
You had a bad experience, you are not happy and you want to warn everyone not to do what you did. OK, we hear that. But yours is NOT the normal experience. I don’t know where you live and if what happened to you is normal for your area. But is NOT the normal practice for either anxiety, depression or post-partum problems. Psychiatrists don’t just hand out medication In addition, most people don’t even go as far as seeing psychiatrists. There are so many people who are in therapy for those reasons and more who never, ever get to the level of seeing a psychiatrist or having the need to go on medication. Those who do, do so in conjunction with working with a therapist, social worker, psychologist, etc.
Honestly, I don’t know why you are being so defensive. If you went straight to medication without therapy it was your place as the patient to question it. If you felt the psychiatrist jumped to give you medication you should have questioned her or questioned your OB. YOU were the Patient and you had a right to ask questions. If you were NOT happy with your psychiatrist you could have gone back to the OB and asked for a different referral. As the patient you were still the person in charge and in control of your own care. YOU were the one in charge of your own choices as you proved by researching the medication and choosing to go off. Why am I the villain or a 15 year old because I point this out to you?
There are pros and cons with every medication. As much as it can be harmful to some it is a lifeline to others. If it were harmful to all it would be removed from the market. Salt is a killer to some but you can’t remove it from everyone’s diet. As with sugar, as with spice, as with calcium, potassium, zinc, or any other food or mineral that some people might be allergic to or have a sensitivity to. Aspirin is a lifesaver if you are having a heart attack, but for those who have stomach issues, it is very harmful. If you have clotting problems don’t take it. If you understand that people with heart conditions should take an aspirin a day, it still wouldn’t be right of you to say “Aspirin is a miracle medication and everyone should take it every day”. That would be a false statement. And for you to “WARN” everyone about Zoloft because you had a bad experience is also wrong because many people have a very good experience on that medication and it has been very helpful to many people.
In addition warning people that medical professionals just hand out pills because they get kickbacks from the suppliers is counter productive to those who really need their medications to function. Statements like that are akin to yelling “fire” in a theater. It can cause unwarranted panic and havoc and you just don’t have the right to do that.
You do have the right however, to tell your story and let people know what your experience was with that particular medication and that not everyone has a good experience with it.
I don’t believe in this type of over-prescribed therapy. Only a very few people are actually clinically depressed, but SO many are being prescribed Prozac and Zoloft, that it is not a joke. The first line of defense should be that the doctor takes extremely extensive blood work and if necessary and MRI or CAT Scan, to ensure the patient’s symptoms are not indicative of a physical condition, rather than mental. My late mother Z”L, was seriously misdiagnosed as having clinical depression (because she was diabetic, no less), when in fact the doctor saw something in her regular six week blood tests, that was a dead giveaway to the fact that she had a growth on her pituitary/hypothalamus, that was causing every single one of her symptoms.
He never mentioned the blood test results to her or to us,though he had an obligation to do, because he personally attached no significance to them, when in fact, those results were CLASSIC signs of this type of tumor according to the Physician’s Desk Reference. When he was still seeing these results in blood work six months later (and after a great deal of agmas nefesh on our parts as we watched her deteriorate needlessly), he finally acknowledged to us that he “thought” she should probably have an MRI, because he saw some blood test results that had been present for six months.
The tumor was confirmed, by then it had already destroyed her thyroid and adrenal glands,but thankfully not her optic nerve which was very close to it, and simple replacement therapy, two tiny pills of Syntrhoid and Coortisol, like saccharine tablets, restored her to normal function LITERALLY overnight. She of course needed and had successful surgery, but so much time that could never be made up, had already been wasted in her getting the proper treatment, because the doctor didn’t “think” it could possibly be such a thing, though the symptoms and bloodwork were absolutely dead on for this condition. I cannot be moichel this doctor for ruining her life for all that time, missing her first grandson’s (my son’s)aliyah to the Torah at his Bar-Mitzvah,for not keeping us in the loop, and for trying to convince us she was mentally ill. And no, we did not sue him for negligence, for personal reasons, though we had every right to do so.
oomis1105 – Because you happened across one quack -why are you paiting us all with one brush?
“I don’t believe in this type of over-prescribed therapy. Only a very few people are actually clinically depressed, but SO many are being prescribed Prozac and Zoloft”
Actually there are many people whom are clinically depressed. And most practioners Do Not over-prescribe like you said! Why don’t you do some research before you mouth off?
How do you all have an opinion on whether it is overprescribed?
How do you all know how many people are Depressed?
I happen to believe it is overprescribed, but not because the people aren’t depressed. I think they are. Just they should be going for therapy instead of (or at least in addition to) medication.
(I don’t believe in mental illness caused by chemical imbalances. I think chemical imbalance is caused by mental illness.)
Always, For the most part post-partum depression is a short term, temporary issue. If that was your diagnosis and that is what the Zoloft was prescribed for then the Doctor would have weaned you off when she felt you were ready. No medication should be stopped cold turkey. Sometimes a medication is switched but usually a patient does not stop these types of drugs cold turkey. Doctors are well aware of the risks and side effects of doing so.
On the other hand, clinical depression is a long term battle and a patient who suffers from that diagnosis might have to stay on medications long term or even for life in order to function at full capacity. So any form of withdrawal or side effects from withdrawal is not an issue for them.
The fact that your friend who works within the community knowing what “everyone” is taking is pretty shocking. She really should not have knowledge of such personal information and if she does that certainly is NOT something she should be discussing. When someone shares that, it is “PRIVATE” and confidential. So either she does not know as much as she claims to know or she is exaggerating what she does know. People are not likely to go around speaking about it, nor do professionals go around discussing their clients. In addition there are various medications similar to Zoloft, and patients try many different medications until they find the one that works for them. It is not a one size fits all situation. So while Zoloft works for one, another med works better for someone else in a similar situation. Or one doctor prescribes Zoloft while another doctor had better results with a similar drug from another company. S/he might have experienced less side effects with their patients or less drug interaction, or whatever. In addition, different patients take different dosages depended on their need, age, weight and other variables. Some are taking it in conjunction with other psychotropic drugs and some just need the one. Every patient and every situation is different.
And yes I am the person behind my comments as are you. You assume that I was placing fault on you. This has nothing to do with “fault” it has everything to do with responsibility. To me the reader, it sounded like YOU were placing fault on your psychiatrist or any psychiatrist for prescribing medication for you or anyone else. To me that was very irresponsible. And yes it is the responsibility of the patient to choose their health care professional carefully and to agree to the treatment. There are many patients who either research the medication on their own or have a friend or family member do it before they agree to take it. In addition, the patient has to feel comfortable both with the health care provider and their method of treatment.
There are many people who NEVER take any medication and rely fully on holistic and organic healing. To each their own.
You are entitled to your opinion that medication is being overprescribed but that is only an opinion if you don’t have the facts and the stats to support it. There are many, many more people suffering in silence who never even see a health professional to help them with their mental health issues. And those that do have waited many years and waited till their issues were truly unmanageable until they gave in and went to see someone. So I would say that in the first place mental health is not something that patients address as soon as they should. And in the second place, by the time they get to a therapist whether they are an MD or not, they need immediate care.
It is time for the post-partum depression rant.
Common wisdom is that post-partum depression is unrelated to any underlying emotional issues, and is purely caused by the chemical and hormonal shifts of birth. Thus, nobody ever goes to therapy for it and only takes drugs.
This is completely proven false. Data shows that women who just gave birth are no more likely to suffer from depression than woman of similar ages who did not just give birth. This conclusively proves that it is not related to the hormonal changes of birth.
Rather, women who are prone to depression, and get depressed at other times, also get depressed after giving birth. Probably because of the emotions attached to giving birth, which trigger the underlying emotional issue.
They should go to therapy, and if the therapist says it is all hormonal, they should find a new therapist.
Always, again, I don’t know where you live, but when I pick up a prescription from my pharmacy there is an automatic explanation printed out with the prescription that explains what the medication is for and what the dangers and side effects are. As the patient and the consumer it is MY job to read it or choose to ignore it. In all honesty, these days unlike the days when that song was written, no one can say that they were NOT informed. Even TV commercials that promote and sell these products “broadcast” the possible harmful side effects of these drugs. It is part and parcel of the advertisement as it is in any and every magazine where it is advertised. Buyer beware, they do this to minimize their responsibility in law suits. And the fact that it is possible to have any one of these side affects does NOT mean that everyone will experience them. Zoloft is NOT the only medication that one can experience negative sexual side effects with. Should we then not take any of those medications as well?
Did you know that it is possible to develop heart conditions with Abilifly but this medication is very helpful to certain patients. Does that mean that no one should take it? There are many women who refuse to take Hormone Replacement Therapy and suffer terribly through menopause while others choose to take the HRT. Who is right and who is wrong? Is it up to you to decide? It is up to you to decide what is right for you and for everyone else to make the same choice for themselves. I hear that you are very sincere about this, I hear that your experience effected you strongly, but still that was YOUR experience that you own and is very real to you. There are many people who have had bad experiences with Lipitor for high cholesterol and others who swear by it. Different strokes for different folks and whether or not others choose to take Zoloft or any other anti-anxiety or anti-depressent that doesn’t negate the fact that you still had a very bad experience with it and you will never take it again and will be more careful when any health professional in your future prescribes anything. I also accept the fact that you are advising others to ask questions and be aware of the side affects of medications and that they should ask questions and understand the full picture before taking anything.
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